91
New Saab 9-5 (2010 on) / Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Last post by TomPaine on 26 March 2024, 11:03:19 AM »Excellent - been following this with interest (and hope).
Recent Posts
92
New Saab 9-5 (2010 on) / Re: Another Ng 9-5 joins the forum
« Last post by carrera on 26 March 2024, 09:14:12 AM »Little update:
The oil was on 3/4
Topped it up and on restarting the screeching at fast idle was gone, though it did return as a little boost was applied.
Perplexing as this indicates oil starvation to the turbo, but not the engine as there have been no oil pressure warnings. The sump is a different design to the TTiD as well, so not the same problem
The oil was on 3/4
Topped it up and on restarting the screeching at fast idle was gone, though it did return as a little boost was applied.
Perplexing as this indicates oil starvation to the turbo, but not the engine as there have been no oil pressure warnings. The sump is a different design to the TTiD as well, so not the same problem
93
New Saab 9-5 (2010 on) / Re: Another Ng 9-5 joins the forum
« Last post by carrera on 26 March 2024, 08:43:06 AM »One step forward, one step back.
Having done the sump drop on the TTid, I set off for home.
There was a screeching from the car upon startup, which I rapidly discovered was turbo speed related.
Oil level is fine, strange that it appears to have failed so rapidly. Started the car this morning and its just the same, screwdriver as a stethoscope. I doubt the oil feed pipes are blocked
She was running so sweetly. Is she jealous of the TTid, or simply in a massive sulk because I visited a Vauxhall dealer yesterday
Having done the sump drop on the TTid, I set off for home.
There was a screeching from the car upon startup, which I rapidly discovered was turbo speed related.
Oil level is fine, strange that it appears to have failed so rapidly. Started the car this morning and its just the same, screwdriver as a stethoscope. I doubt the oil feed pipes are blocked
She was running so sweetly. Is she jealous of the TTid, or simply in a massive sulk because I visited a Vauxhall dealer yesterday
94
New Saab 9-5 (2010 on) / Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Last post by sgould on 25 March 2024, 09:32:41 PM »That's great! 
95
New Saab 9-5 (2010 on) / Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Last post by carrera on 25 March 2024, 09:06:15 PM »We have a runner !
My plan was to crank the engine a couple of turns to prime the pump, before going for a start.... but with push button start you don't really have that option.
Anyway, she started, the oil pressure red warning light didn't seem to appear and the important "Low Oil Pressure" dash warning didn't come on either, so I think that's that job done.
No leaks from the sump that I can see either. Ultimate test will be when I start her up again at the end of the week
My plan was to crank the engine a couple of turns to prime the pump, before going for a start.... but with push button start you don't really have that option.
Anyway, she started, the oil pressure red warning light didn't seem to appear and the important "Low Oil Pressure" dash warning didn't come on either, so I think that's that job done.
No leaks from the sump that I can see either. Ultimate test will be when I start her up again at the end of the week
96
New Saab 9-5 (2010 on) / Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Last post by sgould on 25 March 2024, 08:29:25 PM »Good luck!
97
New Saab 9-5 (2010 on) / Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Last post by carrera on 25 March 2024, 06:11:45 PM »I'm having a coffee break
That's the same conclusion I arrived at. Ironically, the GM genuine part from a Vauxhall main dealer was also made in Poland. The seal does operate by radial deflection.
I'm on my second sump fitting. The hard to access screw that secures the air separator connection went walkies when I was trying to fit it. It took me a while, but I finally figured out it had gone down the PCV hole into the sump
So remove, clean flange, replace making sure the two smaller Torx at the gearbox end don't fall out into the void in the bellhousing. There's a definite technique to making this job easy, Frank from MB Motors probably just whistles at the cars coming in by now.
From here-on in, it's just basic mechanical reassembly. Best remember to put some oil in
Thanks
That's the same conclusion I arrived at. Ironically, the GM genuine part from a Vauxhall main dealer was also made in Poland. The seal does operate by radial deflection.
I'm on my second sump fitting. The hard to access screw that secures the air separator connection went walkies when I was trying to fit it. It took me a while, but I finally figured out it had gone down the PCV hole into the sump
So remove, clean flange, replace making sure the two smaller Torx at the gearbox end don't fall out into the void in the bellhousing. There's a definite technique to making this job easy, Frank from MB Motors probably just whistles at the cars coming in by now.From here-on in, it's just basic mechanical reassembly. Best remember to put some oil in
Thanks
98
New Saab 9-5 (2010 on) / Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Last post by sgould on 25 March 2024, 05:49:32 PM »Looking at the options side by side, it does look as if the metal one is a bit thicker than it needs to be, but the idea is sound.
I think I would go for the new seal, bought from a reputable source, and add some sealant to fix it. As long as the sealant doesn't degrade it. If it does harden and let in air, it looks as if the air can only get in between the flange faces. If so, and the sealing ring seals radially, and not by crushing, some sealant on the flange faces would work as the seal won't be relying on an absolute face to face touching.
I think I would go for the new seal, bought from a reputable source, and add some sealant to fix it. As long as the sealant doesn't degrade it. If it does harden and let in air, it looks as if the air can only get in between the flange faces. If so, and the sealing ring seals radially, and not by crushing, some sealant on the flange faces would work as the seal won't be relying on an absolute face to face touching.
99
New Saab 9-5 (2010 on) / Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Last post by carrera on 25 March 2024, 03:07:54 PM »From the earlier link https://www.alderleyautos.co.uk/blog/a20dth-engine/
My way of thinking about this is that the tube, from the oil pump, which is above the sump just like on an OG, is effectively like a straw which was put vertically in water, with a finger over the end before the straw is withdrawn from the glass. The water stays in the straw due to air pressure on the bottom of the straw and a seal at the top. Remove the finger, air pressure is operating at both ends of the open column and so gravity takes over.
One the A20DTH engines etc, the oil pump is the finger and the poor seal allows the oil in the pick up tube to drain away, but very slowly as the warning light only starts to come on when cars have been left for 24 hours.
It has been suggested that as well as age, failed DPF regens allow diesel to enter the sump and the diesel attacks the seal in a way that engine oil does not and causes it to become hard
The lower sealing ring on the old one is definitely less flexible than the new one
Does that make sense ?
I am now with the engine... and have all options available. £17.50 from Vauxhall dealer, £43 from ex Saab dealer, £10 delivered from Neos. You can see just how much the lower part of the seal is deflected upon fitting. The red bit is the special tool for fitting, placed just above the feed tube
Quote
The seal at the bottom where the oil pickup is starts to harden and then lets the oil drain back into the sump causing oil starvation and in the end, a goosed engine.
The seal goes hard, air is then sucked in which then causes oil starvation.
The first noticeable thing you’ll see is an “Oil Pressure Low – Stop Engine” error message every morning or when the car has been sat.
My way of thinking about this is that the tube, from the oil pump, which is above the sump just like on an OG, is effectively like a straw which was put vertically in water, with a finger over the end before the straw is withdrawn from the glass. The water stays in the straw due to air pressure on the bottom of the straw and a seal at the top. Remove the finger, air pressure is operating at both ends of the open column and so gravity takes over.
One the A20DTH engines etc, the oil pump is the finger and the poor seal allows the oil in the pick up tube to drain away, but very slowly as the warning light only starts to come on when cars have been left for 24 hours.
It has been suggested that as well as age, failed DPF regens allow diesel to enter the sump and the diesel attacks the seal in a way that engine oil does not and causes it to become hard
The lower sealing ring on the old one is definitely less flexible than the new one
Does that make sense ?
I am now with the engine... and have all options available. £17.50 from Vauxhall dealer, £43 from ex Saab dealer, £10 delivered from Neos. You can see just how much the lower part of the seal is deflected upon fitting. The red bit is the special tool for fitting, placed just above the feed tube
100
New Saab 9-5 (2010 on) / Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Last post by sgould on 25 March 2024, 02:08:18 PM »Yes, "gluing" in the sealing ring would make sense.
A couple of further thoughts...
Is the problem of air ingress into suction pickup pipe allowing it to drain down and empty? Or is it that the air through the seal is allowing air ingress for the pump to suck air?
If it's air entering to allow the pipe to drain down, it would only drain down to the level of the oil in the sumo, so maybe not much in practice. But is it this that's allowing the air in? Could it be a poorly seating pressure relief valve? This could allow the system to drain down and empty the pump itself, which would be more serious. In addition, could the same thing happen if there is a non-return valve in the oil filter? On the old cars there was a cheap "paper" flap to stop the oil filter emptying.
If the air through the seal allows the pump to suck air, why would it not continue and leave the oil "unsucked up".
Maybe the hardening of the seal has been blamed in the past in error?
A couple of further thoughts...
Is the problem of air ingress into suction pickup pipe allowing it to drain down and empty? Or is it that the air through the seal is allowing air ingress for the pump to suck air?
If it's air entering to allow the pipe to drain down, it would only drain down to the level of the oil in the sumo, so maybe not much in practice. But is it this that's allowing the air in? Could it be a poorly seating pressure relief valve? This could allow the system to drain down and empty the pump itself, which would be more serious. In addition, could the same thing happen if there is a non-return valve in the oil filter? On the old cars there was a cheap "paper" flap to stop the oil filter emptying.
If the air through the seal allows the pump to suck air, why would it not continue and leave the oil "unsucked up".
Maybe the hardening of the seal has been blamed in the past in error?