Author Topic: 9-5 NG Rescue project  (Read 4346 times)

carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #30 on: 03 March 2024, 08:41:59 PM »
It's been a busy weekend, but worth it, as the subframe is now installed & the car is now completely mobile. There's a couple of undertray items to fix properly and I'm awaiting two new brackets too support the radiator etc assembly. One was broken, the other one turned to aluminium dust as I removed it. Chemical metal rescued one, but the quality of the aluminium looks very poor. Maybe I'll give the new ones a coat of lacquer before installing

From an MOT perspective, she's probably ready, but no rush for that, she needs a good clean as despite the photo there's quite a bit of black mould type stuff on the paintwork. I have a suspicion that she may not be giving full boost and when starting from flat cold there's an engine oil pressure warning. I think the oil level is OK, and I think I did read that the oil pressure when cold is a "feature" of these engines. A feature that needs to be addressed.

I spent a little time on the NSF wing & liner where the wheel moved back into the wheelarch. It's not perfect, but certainly better & serviceable

Here's another picture

 
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD

carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #31 on: 03 March 2024, 09:58:28 PM »
Posting this for reference:

https://www.alderleyautos.co.uk/blog/a20dth-engine/

Oil pump suction gasket, cheap part...  same old Saab charracteristic, new car, sump off job  ::)
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD

sgould

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #32 on: 03 March 2024, 10:56:26 PM »
The hardening O ring on the oil pickup has been a problem on the 4 cyl GM engine since it was introduced in 2005/6 when it was called the Z19DT/ Z19DTH/Z19DTR...

If you go back far enough there's a long thread on UKS from a member called "Trackside" who was one of the first to solve the problem.
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carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #33 on: 04 March 2024, 09:20:02 AM »
Thanks

https://www.uksaabs.co.uk/UKS/viewtopic.php?t=126107&hilit=pickup&start=120

It was Trackside that started the thread & diagnostics, unfortunately it looks like he decided to move the car on, just before the underlying issue was identified

Of course, replacing the seal with the same design, simply makes this a maintenance item. There does now appear to be an engineered solution

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185127585340

edited link to go to Polish designer
« Last Edit: 04 March 2024, 09:26:24 AM by carrera »
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD

sgould

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #34 on: 04 March 2024, 09:48:26 AM »
Looks good.
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carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #35 on: 08 March 2024, 10:37:51 PM »
Spent a few hours renovating the paintwork on this today. After starting with Autoglym polish the paint was so rough that I migrated to T-Cut, it's not complete yet

I also tried to remove the DTC relating to the number plate lights. LED's had been fitted, so I swapped them out. The first pair looked a bit dim, which was fair as they were 24V bulbs. Popped 12V in and everything looked fine.

The connectors were unprotected and I made the mistake of sliding the unit back in when the circuit was live. Which blew a fuse. It took me nearly an hour to find which fuse it was, neither the drivers handbook nor WIS were much help at all. After discovering there is a rear fusebox, I did the necessary disassembly to discover that the fuses in the fusebox were fine, but there was a pair of fuses and a relay, behind the carpet in the vicinity of some scotchlock connections for the towbar. ::)

Put the diagnostics on and B3883 was still there, so it looks like a consequence of the aftermarket towbar wiring. Maybe something for later, but that is the only DTC, so the repair to the front xenon ride height sensor bracket and its location on the subframe must be fine  :thumbsup: 
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD

carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #36 on: 17 March 2024, 10:50:26 AM »
Onto the smaller jobs:

First job of the day, putting new radiator/intercooler brackets in place. I have coated the new ones in clear lacquer, hopefully this will keep the aluminium corrosion at bay. This one was broken when I removed it, the other one failed in the process of being removed.

Unless the bottom covers are off, you probably wouldn't notice the assembly was resting on the bottom of the bumper/ held by the pipework until some kind of consequent failure



9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD

sgould

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #37 on: 17 March 2024, 12:30:59 PM »
It looks as if the recessed holes have failed with a  fatigue/stress crack around the edge of the recess.  Would it be worth trying to ease the sharp corner of the recess to prevent another stress crack forming?
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carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #38 on: 17 March 2024, 12:51:31 PM »
Ah, the voice of an engineer  :)

This is the other one.

I don't think it's a stress crack on the sharp corner. The first one seemed to be largely corrosion as I got an awful lot of white dust when that side was removed. On the second one the crack is in a different place, but turning it over there's another crack well away from the recess

See what you think, but you can probably guess that both the new ones are fitted to the car now

9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD

sgould

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #39 on: 17 March 2024, 04:33:42 PM »
Is the black stuff on the end, glue?

But the close-up makes it look like very poor casting.  Casting aluminium needs careful temperature control of the liquid metal and the rate of cooling.

We used to buy stuff from a manufacturer in the Midlands who specialised in aluminium casting. He showed us around his factory and they were making sumps for Saabs.  But he also cast the engines for the first batch of Hillman Imp engines because the new Scottish foundry construction was delayed.  His engines were fine.  The Imp was well known for engine problems, and they were down to the casting of the later engines.
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carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #40 on: 17 March 2024, 04:46:41 PM »
Ah, the black stuff on the end is chemical metal.

I used it to fix the broken bit on as a temporary fix so I could have at least one support in place until the new ones came. It was still there when I removed it, but the bond wasn't great, which was my assessment point as to whether to put it on the shelf as an emergency spare or bin it

It's in the bin

IMHO the casting quality is very poor, as is the metal

As it's here I just had a quick look at the Aero4. Those seem in better condition, so perhaps it's a batch issue, or simply climate differences between London and rural Gloucestershire ?
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD

sgould

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #41 on: 17 March 2024, 05:24:31 PM »
Gloucestershire would be a lot of Cotswolds. With the higher ground there would be more salt on the ground.  We are just outside London, on a steep hill which is a bus route.  I can't remember the last time it was salted/gritted.
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carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #42 on: 24 March 2024, 09:22:07 AM »
Thie sump is off, here's some comments on the process:

First of all, WIS is pretty useless on the NG 9-5, sure there is some helpful information, but it only seems to have 40% of the information that is necessary, and some that is unneccessary

First of all, it is possible to remove the sump without having to remove the intermediate shaft, which of course would be a somewhat larger job on the XWD. You do need to remove the intermediate shaft bracket on the offside, and to get access to the bolts you need to pop the driveshaft off the retaining clip. I nice big pry-bar is emminently suitable  :thumbsup:

The first picture shows it after all the bolts are removed, the right hand one in the picture is the difficult one, you hve to start off with a ring spanner to release the bolt and get a couple of turns on it, as it withdraws, use the open end to turn it one hex at a time

Next we have what looked like it was going to be a real problem. WIS tells you to remove the starter. You don't need to do that at all (and it tells you to just remove the securing bolts, apparently the electrical connections disappear by magic). It's a simple 10mm bolt, which is securing the drain pipe from the oil separator for the PCV system. Access is with a 1/4" ratchet, arm round the top of the gearbox, eyes underneath to watch it onto the bolt

Then we have sump off. To actually remove the sump I needed to undo the subframe mounting to get that bit of extra clearance I needed. The sump bolts themselves came out easily, the difficult ones were the ones at the flywhel end, but they were only difficult until you realised that there is a cutout in the flywheel to allow access to these bolts. If the flywheel is not in the right position, you cannot get tools on.

What this shows is the seal, next to the orifice from the oil pickup pipe. This is simply a compression fit onto the flange, so if it shrinks / goes hard, oil from the pump above can drain away back into the sump

Finally, after reading around looking for advice on the PCV connection I saw one post that said don't use the Polish engineered solution because that reduces the diameter of the pickup tube  :-\

https://insignia-drivers.uk/forum/insignia-ownership-technical-workshop/how2s-faq-s-guides-and-helpful-things/11895-how-to-replace-oil-pickup-seal-in-sump-a20dth/page3

The diameter of the orifice on the sump is 21.1mm. The engineered part is 18.1mm, so it's a 1.5mm wall on the insert. I'll freely admit, fluid dynamics is not an area of my expertise, other than a basic comprehension of pressure, flow & wall friction. I think I'll need to see if I can get an engineering calculator to do some calcs for me, but of course, I'll need to have some values for viscosity of the oil and what the required minimum potential delivery rate to the pump has to be... unless someone can give me a quick  :thumbsup: or  :thumbdown: to the idea

In the meantime, I'll get on with stripping the sump & inspecting the condition of the strainer. I'm not expecting it to be blocked like the OG 9-5's used to be because the diesel has an insulation jacket around the sump to keep the heat IN the oil

I need to make my mind up on sump sealer. Do I use the anaerobic sealer that we used on the OG 9-5's (Loctite 518 type) or some of the more common RTV type sealer like this https://www.zoro.com/pro-seal-high-temp-sensor-safe-rtv-silicone-sealant-3-oz-red-temp-range-70-to-650-degrees-f-80726/i/G2726263/. What was fitted was some black stuff, with excess around the edge of the sump as you can see in the picture, but having looked at the history file which goes back to 32,000 miles / 2013, I'm of the opinion this is from factory         
 
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD

carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #43 on: 24 March 2024, 11:39:17 AM »
The sump has been cleaned & is ready for reassembly

The best news is that there was no sign of metal in the sump, so I'm not going to bother disturbing the bearing caps

Compared to the OG 9-5 the oil pickup is tiny, nothing blocking that either, apart from a small amount of sealant residue. That remained flexible, in line with the comments in WIS, so I'll probably use the RTV I bought as a backup alternative yesterday.

I found an onine calculator and a comment that a normal flow rate is 8-11 gall/minute https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/oil-pump-flow-rates.118392/ and https://goodcalculators.com/flow-rate-calculator/

With an assumed flow rate of 2 m/s (no idea whether that is a realistic estimate), the OE spec would be 11.1 gall/min whilst the engineered part would be 8.2 gall/min. At least I have a scaling factor to consider. I'm unable to find anything on flow rates online, so the ultimate question is how much excess capacity does the standard pickup tube have.

I'm confident that there will not be a problem at idle, as the demand for oil is much lower, it's going to be at the higher rev range where the requirement is higher. I have something else to do now so I'll reassemble the sump and then have a ponder. Ultimately, if I go the engineered route, I can always see if I can measure the oil pressure with a gauge, but I'll need to find any potential measurement point, connection type and get the connection union fixed first as it leaks  ::)

« Last Edit: 24 March 2024, 02:35:13 PM by carrera »
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD

sgould

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #44 on: 24 March 2024, 08:25:55 PM »
If the new connector is very short, you may need to calculate the flow as through an orifice rather than through a pipe.  But looking at the pick-up, the strainer might be a bigger restriction.  Short minor restrictions in a pipe are not usually an issue, think venturis, the fluid will speed up a bit through the restriction.  It might help to smooth the edges of any steps in the internals of the completed pipework.  Not only to improve the flow, but to remove anywhere for any "bits" to catch and build up.

In addition, if you have a new clean system, it should also be a plus point.  The original design would surely have a bit of a safety factor.
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