Author Topic: 9-5 NG Rescue project  (Read 916 times)

carrera

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9-5 NG Rescue project
« on: 10 February 2024, 12:35:35 PM »
At least I hope it's a rescue, rather than a breaker

Just picked up a manual Aero TTid XWD. You can see that it has a panoramic roof, very good spec and low mileage too. Major problem is that that a driveshaft has popped out, because the subframe has failed.

Getting a subframe may be a challenge, so I see options as follows:

  • New subframe - not possible as there are none on the shelf in Sweden anymore, delisted
  • Second hand XWD subframe - probably preferred option
  • Second hand 2WD subframe - perhaps possible, make one good XWD out of the two
  • Repair the subframe using a decent welding / engineering shop

Any additional thoughts / suggestions appreciated

Today I removed the driveshaft I will hopefully effect some sort of temporary repair to make the car moveable without involving dollies or the wheel hitting the rear of the wheelarch

I don't think this subframe meets the MOT advisory of "Sub Frame corroded, but not seriously weakened"

Time for some photos


9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5NG Aero XWD

phoenix

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #1 on: 10 February 2024, 12:42:48 PM »
Wow. That level of corrosion on a relatively young car is quite worrying.

I wonder would an Insignia subframe have at least the same mounting points so you could chop out the bad bit and substitute it.

carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #2 on: 10 February 2024, 12:58:31 PM »
Wow. That level of corrosion on a relatively young car is quite worrying.

I wonder would an Insignia subframe have at least the same mounting points so you could chop out the bad bit and substitute it.

Excellent idea, and the Insignia also has a AWD model,  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

The body/chassis is in pretty good condition, some rust starting, but pretty clean. There was an advisory on the rear subframe as well, but that doesn't look anywhere near as bad. The protective shields for the fuel tank are quite well deteriorated, but no worse than a 38k car I looked at locally. From the condition of the subframe I would say it looks like a Scottish car, but the registration is Worcestershire I believe
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5NG Aero XWD

Geoff1951

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #3 on: 10 February 2024, 01:44:58 PM »
As phoenix says, wow.
The MOT history is interesting.  All background stuff, but does the (any) service history show where it's been?  You can also check the MOT station locations on gov.uk if you've got the V5C.

carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #4 on: 10 February 2024, 01:49:26 PM »
There's a good bit of history with the car, lots of work done with South Wales Saab Centre, (by the original owner who passed it on in the family, so I'm the third owner) but to be honest I haven't had the chance to study it yet.

One of the MOT's says that the subframe couldn't be inspected due to the presence of plastic covers

Well, that's certainly true, they are off now, it's a bit of a shocker
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5NG Aero XWD

sgould

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #5 on: 10 February 2024, 04:26:59 PM »
I was thinking the same.  Insignia and a modified subframe.

The front subframe on the OG 9-5 changed in around 2005 and the parts have different part numbers and aren't listed as interchangeable, but the only physical difference was a small bracket with a hole in it.
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sgould

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #6 on: 10 February 2024, 04:34:59 PM »
Looking at the Saab parts list diagram and Pictures of the Insignia subframes. They look very similar.  Although Saab list different part numberes for 2WD & XWD.
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carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #7 on: 10 February 2024, 08:28:11 PM »
I'll look into sources sometime next week I think. It's going to be difficult to assess an Insignia subframe against a 9-5 subframe when I can't put them side by side, but I will look for some photos.

What I discovered is that the corrosion is only really bad on the left hand side, and only in a 15" section. While the front of the subframe is a bit crusty, it's definitely redeemable, the right is in excellent condition, as is the rear. I'm wondering of there's been a leak of battery acid at some point (it's above that section) ?

I effected a temporary repair. However, when I fitted the bolts for the rear wishbone (from the side instean of from underneath), it wasn't in the right position, so wasn't clamped & when I lowered it to the ground resulting in the forces on the repair being greater than normal. A bit annoying, more remediation needed, but it's looking possible. 
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5NG Aero XWD

carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #8 on: 11 February 2024, 05:38:54 PM »
Having turned the welder up and added some more metal I now have a car which can at least be moved under its own power.

I connected it up to the reader to be faced with a gazillion codes, all of which were cleared, except for Xenon headlight alignment (the NSF sensor is on the bench, setting after a plastic housing repair) and an error related to the rear number plate lights. They look very white, so I suspect the garage has fitted some LED ones in replacement (there's a charge on an invoice).

The rear foglight wasn't working, but the bulb was fine, it seems removing it and replacing it with a bit of a wiggle encouraged it to work. That's an MOT fail sorted  :)

I have discovered a very slow coolant leak on the front of the engine, it drips from a big plastic thing at the top onto the front gearbox mount/damper. I suspect it's a water / oil heat exchanger, but haven't looked at any documents yet

I have been looking on ebay for Insignia subframes. You can get a new one for ~ £250 and used ones for under £100. That seems to be the way to go and they do look very similar, at least in the bit I need to cut out and repair. Interestingly the same subframes are used on the Astra as well. I'll measure up later, but I'm pretty sure that at about 112*112cm it'll fit into the back of one of the Estates  :thumbsup:

As I said yesterday, there's a good bit of history with the car and that shows that it has had two batteries over the past 11 years, perhaps someone was careless when swapping them.
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5NG Aero XWD

carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #9 on: 12 February 2024, 01:59:54 PM »
Well, this looks promising  :)
 

9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5NG Aero XWD

carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #10 on: 13 February 2024, 09:45:49 PM »
I'm amassing a small collection of things to fix the car:

Astra J subframe (same as Insignia), as above. Almost like new.  :thumbsup:
Driveshaft - from Insignia, better than what came off
Rivnuts - Two M6 bolts hold the front sensors for the Xenon levelling system
Engine support beam. I'm going to have to do something to this as they are pretty much all 148cm wide, but the NG spacing on the wings is 156cm

I'm working away from home, but before I left I put some plus-gas on all the bolts that will need to be undone

I decided on the engine hoist to make things physically easier, but mainly so that I'm able to move the car around if I need to, while the solution is being prepared. If I end up cutting in the left hand leg, then it'll be away for a few days being welded. The other alternative is simply to fit the Astra/Insignia one, having unbolted / cut away the extra bits in the rear arch section and adding whatever extra bits the 9-5 needs.

I'm edging towards the latter, but will only decide when I can compare them side by side. Thoughts ?

Of course, if I succeed with this, it solves a potential problem for other NG owners, and having taken a quick look at EPC, the same for 9-3 NG owners, where I have read some desperate stories of cars being moved on / scrapped because of similar issues

The other NG is booked in for an MOT on Saturday. That should be ready, but I need to swap out a rear spring first, that will have to take priority.
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5NG Aero XWD

carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #11 on: 17 February 2024, 01:46:26 PM »
I'm taking a 5 minute break from working on this car:

All the main retaining nuts seem to be free. The challenge at the moment is removing the downpipe, which has completely rusted bolts on the cat end where the threads have corroded to a point. Two of them are removed and the top one is slowly succumbing to a mini ait tool cutting disc. I think I'll get there, on reassembly I suspect I am going to have to drill out the remaining threads as I don't fancy my chances on removing the splined stud without causing possible damage, and we have to remember that there are no exhaust systems available....

Then I have to figure out how to remove the propshaft. I "think" it's six bolts at the back and a splined shaft at the front, like normal FWD gearbox end driveshafts

I'll make a final decision when I have the subframe out, but there are quite a few detail changes between the Insignia & 9-5 subframes, threaded holes etc, not to mention the Xenon ride height sensor, but I haven't seen an impossible challenge yet
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5NG Aero XWD

sgould

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #12 on: 17 February 2024, 02:39:49 PM »
Just be very careful with the propshaft.  You aren't allowed to let the joints in the middle take any load. Mark the centre brackets and make sure it goes back with a slight "bend".

When I was considering removing the propshaft, I was thinking of cable tying it to a length of wood so it couldn't get bent too far.
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carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #13 on: 17 February 2024, 05:41:31 PM »
Thanks, I had the impression that these were a bit more fragile than those made in the days of an Escort Mk1 etc

I have one gearbox jack, and an adjustable oil drain, seem I may have to become inventive. Maybe, because I'm not following instructions & the exhaust pipe will remain in place that might give some optionaliy. I do also have a number of 5' lengths of 1 1/2" timber, so splints might be in order

Not thinking about that at the moment, I'm on number 2 of the 3 studs on the second cat, that one is about to be drilled through, so then I'll start on the difficult top one
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5NG Aero XWD

carrera

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Re: 9-5 NG Rescue project
« Reply #14 on: 18 February 2024, 10:46:59 AM »
This morning I have been continuing with agricultural engineering, followed by a foray into joinery

So, now I have a cat with three holes to take M8 bolts in replacement for the splined studs and have manufactured special tool DT-49147 out of some wood

The removal of the studs was more difficult because there are stainless steel brackets ended onto the end of the stud/flange, making the final bit very hard to the drill bit. In fact I snapped one 8mm drill bit at low speed. The special tool cost me less than a fiver, which was because I had to go out and buy a box of screws

I'm about to start removing the propshaft, wish me luck


9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5NG Aero XWD