Saab administrators find buyer for ailing car company

[Norfolk Jim]

I can see a flint stone car appearing......................... fuses blowing everywhere!

[Max Headroom]

How many countries are building the infrastructure required for owners to run electric cars?

I noticed a new sign has gone up where I get off the M40 and head into Oxford that a charging point has been set up -didn't quite see where exactly (I was going too fast in my oil-burning polution-generator  )

[Audax]

How many countries are building the infrastructure required for owners to run electric cars?

The infrastructure is mostly there already... given the majority of places that people drive to have some kind of electricity supply you will find before long that car parks will charge you to park and charge your car at the same time. If we can do this via induction charging that would be even better. At the end of the day how much would it cost for a sparky and a couple of people to dig a small trench to run a cable from my house to where my car is mostly parked? It'd be a days work at very most.

[sgould]

That's the easy bit!  The hard bit is when all your neighbours do the same (and they all have two cars?) and you need a new supply in the road, and every road.

Then there will be the need to run all those oil and coal fired power stations all night to make the electricity.

A G-Wizz is OK for a couple of people in a town, but when everyone has a big electric working car.  It won't work.

And what will happen in London where you can't park outside you house, let alone in a drive.

Then you have to secure your socket to stop people stealing your supply.

The impossibles go on.....

[Audax]

That's the easy bit!  The hard bit is when all your neighbours do the same (and they all have two cars?) and you need a new supply in the road, and every road.

Then there will be the need to run all those oil and coal fired power stations all night to make the electricity.

A G-Wizz is OK for a couple of people in a town, but when everyone has a big electric working car.  It won't work.

And what will happen in London where you can't park outside you house, let alone in a drive.

Then you have to secure your socket to stop people stealing your supply.

The impossibles go on.....

If you think they are impossibles then I'm not sure what you'll make of rising oil prices!

So, supplies in the road, not a problem, most houses didn't have electricity what, 100 years ago? They all do now. That bit is simple.

Power stations already run all night and you get cheap electricity to compensate for this, this is a huge benefit to electric cars!

Why won't big cars work? I know a guy who works as a designer for a certain German car company, they're all going electric...

London can use communal sockets or another option.

Last one is easy, you put a lock on the charger socket....

If those few things are "impossible" then you really don't want to see the stuff I'm doing at work, that's *really* impossible in comparison!

[StanleyB]

Have faith guys. Think what a KERS system could do in an electric car .

[Norfolk Jim]

So, supplies in the road, not a problem, most houses didn't have electricity what, 100 years ago? They all do now. That bit is simple.

Not so I'm afraid. Most supplies in the road are virtually maxx'd out already - even on some new estates.

Only recently I got permission for a client for a new house on an old plot in relatively modern drive. They took down an old shack to build new dwelling and electricity board had to put new cables in a new transformer as existing couldn't cope!!! Seemed like old shack used to trip everything out when switching cooker on!

The trench won't be a simple dig hole and bury cable either. Anywhere near trees and it will have to be either hand dug or air spade dug and that's after getting planning permission for work near a tree.......................we'll end up with complete new cables and houses ending up with 3 phase to cope.

It will be a nightmare in rural locations - suppose we could all install PV panels just to charge car during daylight hours??? Then at night wind turbine could trickle charge them.

[StanleyB]

So what's wrong with charging your car with solar energy when the sun shines? That's at least once a year.

[Petemate]

How many countries are building the infrastructure required for owners to run electric cars?

I noticed a new sign has gone up where I get off the M40 and head into Oxford that a charging point has been set up -didn't quite see where exactly (I was going too fast in my oil-burning polution-generator  )

Mark - it is at the Oxford Services. Well spotted! When I first caught sight of it out of the corner of my eye I thought it was a bit of graffiti depicting a v-sign....

[Audax]

Not so I'm afraid. Most supplies in the road are virtually maxx'd out already - even on some new estates.

So, again this is a total non-issue. People will charge cars at night to reduce costs when the supplies are not being used so there is no need to worry about them getting put over the limit.

Anyhow, your second argument is also not-true as if you buy a Vauxhall Ampera then for a fixed fee of £800 British Gas will come and do a site survey and install a hookup point for you. Yes there will be some situations where putting a supply in will be difficult but there are going to be many many places where this isn't an issue, but it's not like you can't put in shared supplies for streets with terraced houses and have people use a swipe card or key (just like with pre-payment leccy meters) to use a public supply. Over time this will become less and less of an issue, it's not like this has to happen overnight, at first as the prices come down for electric cars and the hookup for some people it becomes a more obvious solution and as it becomes easier there will be more people purchasing the cars and hookups, this will reduce the costs of the infrastructure over time too.

At the moment I'd love something like an Ampera as it would mean my 40 miles daily commute would cost me something in the region of £1 instead of nearly £8, if I was in the market for a new car then it's at the point that it's starting to be something I could consider.

[Norfolk Jim]

£800 buys you lots of things........................ that is cheap but I bet that's a minimum and subject to you having your main utilities through them!

Just installing a second supply costs often more than double that and can be 10 times that if the supply is at limit and new section of cable needed.

Don't get me wrong - yeh its a good idea but in my professional capacity I have spent a long time over the last 10 years looking into energy saving systems in homes be it solar voltaics, ground source, air source and water source heat pumps, wind, water turbines and so on and it all comes down to costs especially if the government slash charge back figures! How many of us would be prepared to spend a good 12k on solar voltaics to get in the charge back scheme soon to be cut. It will take you another 15 years to break even again and start making money. trust me I have been part of a research group on sustainable homes.

If the system to charge cars can be made simple and cost effective without major disruption to existing networks then fine but at the moment only a small number of people can afford the extra for these cars that only have a short range...................................

[Audax]

£800 buys you lots of things........................ that is cheap but I bet that's a minimum and subject to you having your main utilities through them!

No, it isn't. It's £800 and a one off payment with 3 years of aftercare, no need for other utilities. £800 would be saved on my petrol costs in 6 months so it's cheap, there's no need for a new supply as they will just hang this off your existing meter. The survey is *free* also the government will provide for some of this cost which reduces the price to £300-£400. This also gives you 3 years home care for your entire house from them. I don't see why everyone thinks plug in points are so difficult? Scandinavia has had them for years so people can plug their fossil fuelled Saab or Volvo into block heaters! so quite why this becomes impossible in the UK I don't know.

I fully agree with you that we are not there yet but I think in just a few more years it will become viable for many many drivers... I'm hoping to move in the next few years so that I can get rid of my car for work purposes entirely and, the money I save will be more than enough to either hire a fossil fuel car for holidays or pay for a flight to somewhere exotic! Even if not the cost of running 2 cars would still make it cheaper for me today if I didn't have to outlay any cash for something like an Ampera.

[Geoff1951]

Yes, funny how GM lets Saab ...

 only to then pull the plug........

A rather appropriate metaphor !

[chris aka zaphod]

My take on it all.

Yes. It's been a soap opera!

GM vetoed just about every offer that was proposed, since it did not want to lose its 'intellectual property', which it had taken off Saab, in the first place. Undoubtedly, IMHO, GM saved Saab in the 1990's, but it ended up a cherrypicking exercise, with a taste of divide, kill and conquer - GM have a track record of this don't they? Many GM owned marques have gone in the US, and Opel's future still looks rocky. Saab technology design and know-how has gone into other vehicles - for example, the front suspension et al. of the new Vauxhall Astra GTC is Saab. What should have been a similar relationship as Volvo with Ford and now Geely, as BMW and Bentley, or TaTa with Jaguar never materialised.

We are The Borg/GM #. You will be assimilated. Ironic, as Borg has a Swedish association (# delete as required)

There were some good, and shocking offers. Geely were interested, but soon withdrew. Mahindra & Mahindra fell by the wayside, The Turkish Government, Volvo for the vulture rights, BMW were not/interested, although a deal had been signed 18 months ago for BMW to supply engines to a next generation of Saabs, all put in bids.

Youngman Lotus even gave billions to prop up Saab. My opinion is they lost the ball. They wanted to increase their share of the market in China. They are a huge automotive truck and coach concern, well establish for the past 50 years or so. They manufacture. They also badge engineer. But, I beleive that they would have been a lot of internal competition between their models, as well as from BAIC, who manufacture their versions of the 9-3 and 9-5.
Regardless, GM were not up for a negotiation, if a buyer wanted to use Saab's (ie, GM's) technology, years ahead of GM's home grown. GM were afraid of competition. I also suspect that because of the US administration's massive financial bail-out of GM, there were also things of a political nature going off behind the scenes that we are not party to.

And, so on......

Saab have always been innovative; its saleon Wednesday ultimo, and future plans have once again underlined this. Whether the course that the new owners, a Chinese/Japanese venture will succeed, is open for debate. Electric/hybrid? Hmm. Not the Saab I know, and love. Going headlong into electric vehicles may also be industrial suicide without a crossover period.

However, I am most pleased for the people of Trollhattan, where production will remain. Jobs will be created, and livelihoods secured. Maybe above all, including loyalty to the marque, this is the most important aspect of the story.

[Max Headroom]

How many countries are building the infrastructure required for owners to run electric cars?

I noticed a new sign has gone up where I get off the M40 and head into Oxford that a charging point has been set up -didn't quite see where exactly (I was going too fast in my oil-burning polution-generator  )

Mark - it is at the Oxford Services. Well spotted! When I first caught sight of it out of the corner of my eye I thought it was a bit of graffiti depicting a v-sign....

I guessed it had to be there. The only other place it might have been was that muchos-el-cheapo fuel at the Asda self-service place (I stopped going there as my car runs like a bag of nails on their fuel). But I thought electric cars took an entire day (or more) to re-charge. Pitching up on a long journey for a coffee and a bun doesn't give it much time to get the wiggly-amps back in the batt's