I just got home and soon as I opened the door the headlights came on. They have now gone off after about a minuite.
This happened the other day when I was at the petrol station and also when I was at the supermarket Tuesday.
I know there is a way of getting them to come on so I can get to the front door in the dark but as I dont know how this is done I am sure it must be something going wrong.
Its a 2002 Aero Estate
Any ideas?
Steve
i know this wont be much help to you but mine do this also from time to time.mine is also a my2002 aero with bi xenons.i dont worry too much as they do go off after a couple of minutes or so.
Getting the lights to stay on is, I think, set up on the SID, and known as 'Follow Me Home'.
Although I know very little about this, it did occur to me it might be worth 'tickling' the system and setting it to "On", then setting it to "Off" after a week or so, and see if that settles it down.
Something to do with flashing the headlights just before you remove the key from the ignition , but after you have turned off the car...
That's it. You must be inadvertently touching the headlamp flasher after the ignition has been turned off. 30 secs is the default time time for the "follow me home" lights. :)
Nope I am 100% sure I am not touching anything. I reverse into my drive, switch the engine off and take the key out. As I pull the key the lights come on.
At the petrol station the other night I drove in, selected reverse and pulled the key. Same again as I pulled the key the lights came on.
Would the tech 2 store how it has been operated?
Steve
Sounds a bit odd.
Just brainstorming the things that cause oddities.....
Does the barrel of the ignition key come up when you take the key out?
Is the lighting stalk at all loose?
Broken wire? Do all the steering wheel switches do what they should? And the cruise?
Anyone played with the SID?
Maybe a DICE/TWICE fault?
I've just had a look at the wiring diagram.
I wonder if it's just a faulty dipswitch or the associated relay (8a) being loose inside. If it's operating on its own regardless of the switch?
Otherwise everything seems to be controlled by the DICE.
The only fuse seems to be No.7 in the engine bay.
Everything seems to work as it should with no loose switches.
I suppose as long as it switches itself off after a few minutes it wont be a problem.
Can get an I get that function switched off if it does cause problems?
What is involved with changing or reprogramming the DICE?
Will look at that fuse at the weekend.
Steve
I was thinking along the lines of a bad connection somewhere. That's because the "follow me home" is triggered by a quick flash of the lights. So I suppose that it's possible that a loose connection could mimic a "quick flash" and confuse things. The fuse is the only item in the circuit apart from the dipswitch, the relay and the DICE.
Unless.....
.... the bulb failure warning "relay" under the bonnet is notorious for failing. It's downstream of the bits mentioned above, but I wonder if it's failed and is back feeding current. It fails so often, I'd be tempted to check that first.
OK great
How do I check the bulb failure warning relay?
Steve
It's the orange "relay" in the fusebox by the battery. It can really only be checked by substitution. But the usual fault is cracked solder joints on the base where the connection pins fit. The red top can be prised off and you can have a look for cracks or corrosion. But if you know someone with a Saab of the same era, try a swap? Or just try giving it a wiggle and tap and see what happens?
I borrowed an orange relay, the car still does this sometimes like before so I doubt its the relay unless that one is faulty as well. Any more ideas?
The odd thing is I did it on purpose last night when I got home, the lights only stayed on for about 30 seconds. When it does it on its own they stay on for about 2 or 3 minutes.
Will Tech 2 be able to know what has triggered it?
Thanks
Steve
Clutching at straws here, but do the sidelights or headlights come on when you hit the brakes?
If so you may have a badly fitted brake light bulb. The twin filament bulbs can be pushed in too far. Then they will appear to be OK but they will actually be rotated too far and the base contacts connect between the tail light and brake light circuit. This can cause all sorts of odd problems with ignition and lighting. On some cars the engine won't switch off with the ignition if you have your foot on the brake.
Bit of a long shot, but something fairly simple to check and eliminate.
Nope just been out with SWMBO and just the brake lights come on. Did a complete light check and all bulbs do as they are supposed too.
As she got out it did the 2 or 3 minute light thing, she had not touched anything. You dont even need to lock it or have had the lights on. Just getting out of the car triggers it, it might have been doing it for ages just only recently noticed it.
If you put the key back in and switch the ignition on and off it stops it straight away.
The odd thing if it was the ''get you to the front door lights'' why is it staying on for 4 x longer than it should?
As they come on they do the up down thing as if I have done it on purpose, is that supposed to happen?
All very odd, if it did it every time I would presume it was an ECU programming thing but something must be getting a false signal I presume but why the long staying on period or is that adjustable by what you do with the stalk?
Steve
Get Tech II on it as in that they can programme the length of time the 'follow me home' lights stay on for so there might be something in progamming that says 'follow me home' when ignition switch pulled??
Just a thought as you say it happens everytime except on restart.
I've had a look at the wiring diagram.
There are four wires from the Xenon Dipped Beam ballast control box on each side. Each matching pair connects together, so there are effectively four connections from the dipped beam to the car electrics.
1. Goes to the Main Instrument Unit.
2. Goes to a different connector on the main instrument unit.
3. Goes to a dead end at the diagnostic plug.
4. Goes to the dipped beam relay where it gets a battery feed when the relay is operated.
I think that the two feeds to the instrument panel are for the green "lights on" warning and the blue main beam. Not sure how the main beam warning is affected by the dipped beam circuit, but it shows diodes and things in the circuit.
The diagnostic plug connection should do nothing, unless you have something plugged in there. It's under the steering wheel in the parcel shelf.
I suspect that your problem lies in the circuit from the relay. After all the relay has to work to turn the lights on. The relay is operated by a current from the DICE unit. The DICE gets a signal current from the dipswitch stalk on the steering column and does some interpretation before switching the relay to turn the lights on.
I would have to suspect some problem with the DICE unit if you are getting these odd thing happening. Either the DICE or the signals it's getting. But if it's a faulty signal why is the light turning off at all? DICE gets all sorts of different power feeds. The only one that "fades" is the +54 circuit. This is the one that makes the internal lights stay on for a bit when everything is turned off. Are these lights staying on when the headlights do their 3 minute trick? If so there may be some interaction. Otherwise I think you need to get the DICE checked.
I think you have got something there with the interior lights.
I noticed last night when I came home late that it did its 3 minute thing but I had NO interior lights.
Went out this morning and it did not do the headlights but I had interior lights again.
So it seems to do either the interior or headlights, it seems to be doing it as I switch the ignition off. Not sure why it does one or the other?
So it looks like I have a knackered twice unit, what do I need to do? is it just a matter of replacing it with another or does it need programming with Tech 2. Does it need to be a new one or will a used one be OK? Will it need divorcing?
Thanks
Steve
I should divorce the car Steve :-[
DICE not TWICE ;)
DICE is Dashboard Integrated Central Electronics
Errors in the DICE generate error codes beginning with the letter B. You can get the DICE reprogrammed, but beware. See attachment!!
A new DICE would need to be programmed with the car VIN number. But the old one does not need divorcing.
You should have the later unit already that doesn't suffer from the aircon problem.
Article : Electronic unit
PartNo : 4712345
Usage : 4D, DICE, NLS-USE 5266267
Also available as exchange unit.
Programmed using a TECH 2 Scan Tool.
Ch. W3070001--
Ch. --X3070000
Order Quantity : 1
If you do need a new DICE, m5_saabcentre (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/m5-saabcentre/_i.html?_nkw=dice) have some used ones in their ebay shop for under £20. I don't know if they are the right spec though, and you will need to programme it as well.
In the current motor when I got it I had no courtesy lights in the bottoms of the doors working, I did a bit of fault finding and cable tracing and wiring testing and worked out that the DICE unit must be at fault, anyhow as I didn't have a spare available at that time I just slapped the old one back in and the courtesy lights magically started working again. I've seen similar before with one that had some kind of fault I can't recall, when probing various things suddenly the headlamp washers popped up and sprayed the front of the car for several seconds so I quickly removed the probe thinking I'd got it in the wrong pin and then everything was back to normal. I'd suggest pulling the DICE out and putting it back in just in case it's a bad connection.
Quote from: Audax on 20 January 2012, 06:33:32 PM
I'd suggest pulling the DICE out and putting it back in just in case it's a bad connection.
We can get faults with 'black boxes' on aircraft, and sometimes those faults can be cleared by 're-racking' the suspect component - which is exactly what Audax is saying should be done here.
Sounds like it has to be tried!
Great I will try that first before I buy another one, where is it?
Do I need to disconnect the battery before I pull it out?
Steve
It's under the dash, drivers side, remove some torx screws and pull the cover down, make sure you remove the foot well light out and free the diagnostic connector before you pull the cover down. It's up on the right hand side so you may have to find yourself twisting around to find it. It should be a big connector, no need to take the actual DICE out although it may help you to write down a part number (saying that you need to configure them with Tech-2 so you might get stuck replacing it yourself). No need to disconnect the battery if you do this as most times I've ever removed one it has been powered up as I have needed to test the circuits coming to/from.
Great that is a big help thankyou.
I will have a go at this one day this week as work is quite and I seem to be home early most days.
Will let you know how I get on.
Steve
Looking at sgould's post surely that would mean even a second-hand DICE wouldn't work if it says they can't be programmed twice?
I assume the later one as mentioned doesn't have that problem. Quite surprising that Tech II can't reprogramme it again seeing as how complicated the instrument is?
Quote from: Norfolk Jim on 23 January 2012, 08:55:43 AM
Looking at sgould's post surely that would mean even a second-hand DICE wouldn't work if it says they can't be programmed twice?
I assume the later one as mentioned doesn't have that problem. Quite surprising that Tech II can't reprogramme it again seeing as how complicated the instrument is?
It's only part number 4712345 which was only used in 1998 and 1999 cars and was latter superseded to another number, it's perfectly possible to reuse DICE units.