Saab Tech Talk (STT)

Workshop for classic Saab models => Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) => Topic started by: Steve440 on 22 January 2012, 11:40:12 PM

Title: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: Steve440 on 22 January 2012, 11:40:12 PM
Just been reading rain sensing wipers were standard fit to US 9-5 Aero's from 2002 onwards.

Is it possible to upgrade normal wipers to rain sense easily?

Is the wiring in there and just need connecting to the correct sensors and relays or will I need a kit like this?  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rain-Control-System-Car-Sensor-Automatic-Wipers-Switch-/140676443773?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DDLSL%252BSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D180760500117%252B180760500117%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5799618896228905683

Steve
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: sgould on 22 January 2012, 11:51:11 PM
It's not easy.  To fit the Saab system you need a different windscreen for a start!!

Even then I think that there is a bit more to it.
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: idlerider on 23 January 2012, 09:11:28 AM
If mine are any guide, I wouldn't bother. You can never predict what they're going to do: work properly (OK, most of the time), ignore a downpour, or suddenly wipe every two seconds on a dry screen, whatever the setting.

Very distracting - stay with the intermittent.   ;)
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: phoenix on 23 January 2012, 09:26:36 AM
You definitely need a new screen, and I think also a control module. They're the relatively easy bits. However you also need the correct wiring loom and I'm not sure that all cars had it fitted.

That eBay one looks interesting for the money though.
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: Steve440 on 23 January 2012, 09:43:37 AM
If that is the case I might give that £35 on Ebay a go.

Must be OK or the seller would have crap feedback I presume.

I have rain sensing wipers on my Transit and they are perfect, I leave them on all the time and the adjustment is sat at 50%. Sometimes they come on and I then realise it has just started to rain. :o . I was not convinced when I first had them but now when I drive my other vehicles I am waiting for the wipers to come on as it rains.

Maybe if I bought that kit and I had the wiring in my car I could use part of the kit and some of the originals car wiring? Where would I need to look?

Steve
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: phoenix on 23 January 2012, 09:51:29 AM
That kit is completely standalone as far as I can see.

To fit it you will need to

a) find a source of power (ideally fed from the same fuse as the wipers)
b) connect the output of it to the wiper relay or direct to the motor circuit

It will involve some rooting around for sure.

My personal choice would probably be to get a bit clever and feed it from the intermittent wipe circuit, interrupting the feed from the column switch. I'd have to check the diagrams to see how this would work though.

I also see that despite it saying it comes on with the ignition, there is a power switch in the kit.
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: TomPaine on 23 January 2012, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: idlerider on 23 January 2012, 09:11:28 AM
If mine are any guide, I wouldn't bother. You can never predict what they're going to do: work properly (OK, most of the time), ignore a downpour, or suddenly wipe every two seconds on a dry screen, whatever the setting.

Very distracting - stay with the intermittent.   ;)

Have to say mine are perfect, and that's despite having had the windscreen replaced, which reportedly sometimes leads to problems. I thought they were a pointless gizmo until I had them, and now I'm a convert (along with all those other things you think are unnecessary until you have them, like auto-dimming mirrors, memory seats etc etc...).
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: Max Headroom on 23 January 2012, 10:16:26 AM
Mine work faultlessly too - but the old Pug I ran had them, and they were a bit flaky on that
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: Audax on 23 January 2012, 10:23:52 AM
I don't like them, they are unpredictable on different cars resulting in many just sitting there doing nothing when there is a fine drizzle mist which is when you need them most. If I had a Saab with them fitted I'd be looking at a way of getting rid of them!  :P
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: Max Headroom on 23 January 2012, 10:32:14 AM
...I'm also aware that if the sensor area has rain repellent such as 'Rain-X' they go bananas! Maybe mine just work well because I keep my windscreen really clean  ::)

Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: Norfolk Jim on 23 January 2012, 11:40:09 AM
SWIMBO has them on her Volvo V50 and I very quickly got to like them and like Steve says I just left them on all the time and they worked faultessly - she also has had her windscreen replaced. Wish I had them on mine - that kit looks interesting????
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: Audax on 23 January 2012, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: Norfolk Jim on 23 January 2012, 11:40:09 AM
SWIMBO has them on her Volvo V50 and I very quickly got to like them and like Steve says I just left them on all the time and they worked faultessly

Perhaps that just means that Ford/Volvo have got it right ;)
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: Norfolk Jim on 23 January 2012, 11:49:13 AM
Could well be ? ???
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: CitTone on 23 January 2012, 01:51:54 PM
Had them on a Pug 306 and the wife's current Citroen C3. Unpredictable on both, really.
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: Max Headroom on 23 January 2012, 04:18:03 PM
Quote from: Audax on 23 January 2012, 11:42:41 AM

Perhaps that just means that Ford/Volvo have got it right ;)

And SAAB ...on my car at any rate  :D
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: wrighar on 23 January 2012, 04:28:10 PM
Our 93ss gets it right most of the time, they are set to 'medium' sensitivity and I've not neede to change it.

I have as much trouble with the 9-5 choosing 1 of the 3 intermitent settings and waiting for the next sweep for that setting to take effect.
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: Steve440 on 23 January 2012, 06:49:24 PM

Like voice control, the ford system in my transit is spot on and it only struggles when I drive fast so the noise in the cab is quite high. I have a friend with a Merc and the voice control in that is rubbish, its been back several times and the dealer reckons it struggles with English  ???

I have orderd one of those kits so I will see what it looks like when it turns up. Anybody got a schematic of the wiring of a 2002 Aero so I can see if I can break into the system when I come to fit it, my thought was to put the wires from the control unit in where the Intermittent relay goes so not having to cut any wires if possible? Where is the relay for the wipers?

Steve
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: sgould on 23 January 2012, 08:58:28 PM
There are two wiper/washer systems.  It's difficult to say when they changed from one to the other, but I think it was mid-2003.  But I can't be sure.

All the relays are in the box by the battery.  List of fuses and relays is in the lid.

The wiper motor is fed from Fuse 37 in the fuse box at the end of the dashboard.
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: Steve440 on 26 January 2012, 10:22:38 PM
The kit has arrived. :o

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p109/STEVEP440/DSC00849.jpg)

Looks OK but might be a complicated job to wire in.

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p109/STEVEP440/Rainsense.jpg)

I am hoping if I can work it out I can connect it to where the relays are, hopefully I can remove the existing relay and connect this box in instead. This way if it does go wrong I can pop the old relay back in and be back to where I was.

Anybody got a copy of a 2002 wiper wiring diagram I can use?

Steve

Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: sgould on 26 January 2012, 11:14:45 PM
Try these attachments...
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: Norfolk Jim on 27 January 2012, 09:20:28 AM
Good luck Steve - you're a brave man!

Let us know how it goes and how many days it took to work it out :)
Title: Re: Can Rain sensor wipers be retrofitted easily?
Post by: phoenix on 27 January 2012, 11:04:12 AM
The difficulty is coping with DICE. For that reason I wouldn't recommend cutting any wires.

A brief description:

The motor current is switched via the wiper stalk. However the intermittent wipe and single wipe after wash signals are generated by DICE, which doesn't have the capability to sink the required current, so drives the intermittent wipe relay instead.

The suggestion of removing this relay makes sense. I would think it might work just by connecting the yellow wire of the controller to pin 3 of the relay base, and not bothering with the white or green. You'll need to connect the brown, red, grey and black as per diagram.