Messages

1

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: 9.5 Wiper arm lengths

« on: 06 March 2015, 01:58:43 PM »

Thanks for the tip on Tesco unibody wipers.

I got myself a 22 inch one (and Saab IS listed on the box of that one) but have to say I found it really difficult to fix it onto the wiper arm though.  There is not enough clearance to get the U-shaped thing on the end of the wiper arm to slide over the plastic clip and I was about to return it to Tesco but only persevered because at least one person on this forum had clearly managed to get it on.  I suceeded in attaching it only by first partially taking out the plastic clip halfway, positioning the U-arm in place and then jamming the plastic clip back into the curve of the "U".

Another tip : Re REAR WIPERS :--
 
I found it really difficult to get rear wiper blades for my 9-5 Estates.  NEO don't stock them, many autoparts shops don't have them and I suspect that Saab Orio parts will charge a bomb for them if they do supply them.  However, although Halfords strenuously claim not to stock them for Saabs, their own (Halfords) brand 14" rear wiper (code no. "W36") WILL fit 9-5's of 2006 onwards.  You have to get the one with a "stepped" slot in the wiper body as Halfords actually make 2 different types, but confusingly pack them both in the same box!

The Halfords 14" wipers will NOT fit pre-2006 9-5's because the cut-out slot in the wiper body is too short to accomodate the projection on the end of the older wiper arm. I had to insert new rubbers instead into my old original wiper blades.  Further tip -- when inserting the rubbers, insert just the rubber strip first almost all the way and THEN slide in the two metal stiffening strips (after giving them a pre-bend convex OUTWARDS from the line of the rubber, for tension and a clean wipe). I intially tried inserting the rubbers with metal strips pre-loaded and struggled!

Regards
WR

2

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: Ball joints /bearings - good for 80k miles?

« on: 06 March 2015, 12:22:11 PM »

But the man said ....
"..front nearside was taken off  and the situation was a good deal worse than I suspected"

So still unclear why the front insides were worn.  Front alignment toeing out by an incredible amount?

WR

3

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: Ball joints /bearings - good for 80k miles?

« on: 05 March 2015, 12:24:12 PM »

How did you get this wear on the front tyres?  The excessive inside edge wear usually occurs only on the rear tyres of the 9-5.

WR

4

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: Best Battery.

« on: 23 February 2015, 03:01:04 AM »

May I humbly suggest there is too much hand wringing and agonising here over model number, AH capacity and slight differences in CCA.  The only absolute is the physical size that will fit in the tray, orientation side of +- terminals and the shape of the terminals.  For a 9-5 (any year of 9-5, I believe) this is defined by the 096 battery code. 

Capacity in ampHours is less relevant unless you are planning to regularly leave your sidelights on while parked up, not run your car for 2-3 weeks at a time (because the underlying "car all switched off" drain is about 100mA -- at least that is what it is measured on mine with only the standard clock & other OEM monitoring modules in place), or you are figuring out how far you might be able to go if your alternator fails (For average 9-5 FULLY CHARGED batteries that will probably be about 20min at the average nominal assumed base draw of 25A to keep the engine/fuelpump etc  running - & NOT including headlights).  More relevant is that if you install a Calcium-Lead or Silver-Calcium-Lead  battery I do not think it will EVER be recharged to full rated capacity with the standard charge voltage set on all 9-5's.  Maybe just to 80% rated capacity at very best I reckon.

Manufacturer's quoted CCA is a bit of a fantasy because I have seen experimental data on perfectly NEW good batteries being taken through Standards Institute specified charge cycles to retest what the CCA is on each cycle and it can vary on different cycles by as much as 10-15% if I remember rightly.  Additionally as the battery is used over time, there may be some sulfation, active material drops off the grids and this will reduce the max possible CCA (and chargeable capacity).

Just as well then that (as far as I know) the usual supply required for the starter motor in starting petrol OR diesel is no more than approx 200-250 A.  This is comfortably within what any new 096 size battery should be able to deliver (whether 650, 700, 750 or 800 "rated" CCA) and it is un-necessary to agonise too much over a small difference in "quoted" CCA ... as it is likely to be 10-15% out anyway.  Incidentally my wife's 1.9tid 9-5 was fitted with a "630 CCA" battery 2yr ago by the dealer who sold the car to us and we still do not have any starting problems with it.

More relevant perhaps but more subtle and difficult to evaluate, is the quality of internal manufacture of the battery - whether the lead oxide paste is more carefully inserted into the grids and how grids are packed/spaced etc - which makes one Manufacturer Brand slightly more susceptible to loss of capacity through loss of active material for example or being less tolerant of deep discharge cycles as it is used over a few years.  Due to its internal design, the axiom for car lead-acid batteries though, I believe, is that if it is always kept as fully charged as possible (without any deep discharge cycling) the longer a life it will have.

WR

5

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: Charge!

« on: 21 December 2014, 11:10:29 PM »

Thanks Audax.
Is the voltage regulator screwed to the outside of the alternator, inside it or somewhere else in the engine bay?

My feeling is that the last few tenth's of voltage put out by the regulator and one's driving pattern may make the boundary difference between whether a Calcium battery 'sort of' works O.K. in a 9-5 or not, albeit not perfectly.  If the regulator gives you 14.4v rather than 14.0v and you drive a reasonable distance daily and it's summer --  then you never call upon the non-existent reserve capacity.  I should point out that I have actually been running a (non Saab) Calcium battery in my car for a while when I had the old alternator which gave I believe a slightly higher voltage.

However, if it is winter (when the charging voltage needs to be higher) and you only have 14.0v, your battery is also a couple of years old and you park your car out in the cold -- then this may just tip you over into a non-start situation as you are continually operating in the bottom quarter of your battery's charge range.

Interesting that Ford Focus I believe specifically specify a Calcium battery must be used because its  generator is set to a higher voltage, and presumably if operated with an old style Antimony battery would cause excessive gassing and loss of water and customer complaints.

Some other GM cars also have a higher setting.
http://www.landiss.com/battery.htm

That is why I wonder if Saab did change the voltage setting on later alternators.
[Or whether it is possible to manually alter it ...  or perhaps alter via a Tech2 setting...?]

WR

6

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: Charge!

« on: 21 December 2014, 07:40:22 PM »

1/ Does anyone know whether there is any way you can adjust the charging voltage from the alternator on a 9-5? 

2/ Second question is: Does anyone know whether the charging voltage specification on the alternators were changed for later model years of 9-5?  Say before and after 2002?   I had an replacement alternator from Neo Bros fitted recently and its max charging voltage measured at the battery terminals is 14.1v as opposed to my previous one which (I think) gave 14.4v .  I have had some battery problems since.

I ask because the charging voltage is very relevant with respect to whether you have fitted an "old type" Antimony-Lead grid battery OR a newer Calcium-Lead grid 'low maintenance' battery OR even newer Silver-Calcium-Lead grid battery.  The newer Calcium-Lead and Silver-Calcium-Lead types need a higher voltage (viz 14.8v) to charge to 100% capacity, whereas the "old" Antimony-Lead type would attain full charge with 14.2v .

Running the 'low maintenance' Calcium battery with 14.1v will mean that the battery is never fully charged even on an extended drive, and you may therefore be constantly running at or below 50% charge level with dips into 20% or below.  Quite apart from giving you much reduced reserve capacity (you can throw the claimed AmpHr rating out the window!), constantly operating at a low level of charge means that the battery tends towards sulfation and shortened life.  I am sure this underlies some of variable battery life experiences people have had irrespective of whether they have bought a 'cheap' or a 'brand name' battery.

3/ Lastly, does anyone know whether there is some temperature compensation built into the 9-5 charging circuit to vary the charging voltage with ambient temperature, and if so, where is the temp sensor -- is it measuring air at the front of the car or under-bonnet temperature?

Thanks in advance for all your eagerly awaited answers!

PS. This link below provides some basic info on the different battery types but there is a wealth of other info on charging voltages and also estimating charge state by resting voltage (again the old tables don't apply for Calcium batteries).

http://www.centurybatteries.com.au/content/documents/battery-talk/issue-1-battery-talk-what-are-silvercalcium-batter.pdf

WR

7

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: Help with service schedule for 2009 9-5 2.3T Turbo Edition manual

« on: 03 September 2014, 06:13:47 PM »

I also would be very loath to do a flush for the following reason. The "flush" additive I believe is a low viscosity solvent with some detergent chemical additives.  Running this for a few minutes probably would not damage your car.  However it is not possible to drain the contaminated oil completely without dismantling the oil cooler and so all the flush that is contained in there will be mixed back into your expensive new oil, immediately degrading it, affecting its viscosity, protection and life.

8

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: Battery issue

« on: 21 January 2013, 01:35:07 AM »

AS a general rule is it better to install a Calcium battery in a standard car than a non Calcium battery?

I think manufacturers are more likely to offer a longer guarantee on Calcium lead-acid batteries than non-calcium, presumably on the basis that they think it is less likely to suffer plate corrosion and so customers are less likely to need to claim.  Apart from that, the quality in my opinion depends more on how much care the particular manufacturer is prepared to put into the construction of the internal plates etc.  This unfortunately is very much an unknown and you can only hope that a "premium brand" manufacturer will take more care over this great unseen and unadvertised part of their battery. 

Simple guide perhaps would be to buy the one with the highest CCA rating you can afford, from a reputable manufacturer and also with a reasonable amp-hour capacity rating -- to cover you for those times when you happen to leave your lights on when parked up!  The higher the CCA the better for diesels as the starter needs to work harder against the inherently higher engine compressions.

9

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: Battery issue

« on: 21 January 2013, 12:52:15 AM »

An alternator does put a heavy load on a car if the battery is flat, of if you are using lots of electrics.

On a race car we used to run we would disconnect the alternator for over takes as the extra horsepower (100A at 13.5v) was worth it.

Fully reapeatable on the rolling road.

2 HP, when at idle a car may only be making 5-10hp.

Interesting practice about "disconnecting the alternator" -- was this done with a switch to electrically isolate the alternator, or some form of clutch to disconnect the mechanical drive to the alternator?  I presume you still had a battery to drive the ignition during these times?

I agree that the alternator would have to draw some power from the engine to drive the electrical generation and if you were really drawing CONTINUOUSLY, 100amp at 13.5v then 2hp seems about right. [100 x 13.5 = 1350W ; 1W=0.0013410 hp ; equals 1.81 hp,  and the energy has to ultimately come from somewhere..] 

However I would dispute that the alternator puts a "heavy" load on the engine under normal circumstances and certainly not in respect of charging the battery.  The output voltage on a normal alternator is set to limit at 14.5v and even with a fairly discharged battery I would expect after a few minutes of charging, for the current flow into the battery to drop to no more than 10 or 15 amp as a maximum due to back voltage from the reactions taking place in the battery.  That equals just over 200w max, or less than 0.3 hp.  In the context of driving along at a reasonable speed and the horsepower expended on that (certainly more than 5hp!) I think it cannot really be considered a "heavy" load.

10

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: Battery issue

« on: 20 January 2013, 07:15:10 PM »

My comment on using a Deep Cycle charge was referring to the use of a deep cycle charger, as used for marine or truck applications. These chargers use toroidal transformers and smart electronics that flatten the battery and then recharge it, diagnosing and pulse cycling the input voltage. These chargers are a step up on the standard auto constant feed units and are not much more expensive than the stock charger.
Referring to the comment that the car runs smoother with a fully topped up battery is simple enough. The alternator is essentially off and the engine has less drag on it, as it has little or nothing to do.

Interestingly my 9-3 Hirsch has a new Calcium battery in it. Wow. Massive current capability and it is half the weight, among all the environmental benefits. Cranking speed is very fast. Lots of punch.

"...that flatten the battery and then recharge it..."  May I just emphasise that it is not a good idea to deliberately fully discharge a lead-acid car battery and then recharge it.  Car batteries have a different internal structure to alternative designs of lead-acid battery which are designed to better withstand full cycles of almost complete discharge and then recharge.  If you explore and read all the information in the link I previously provided, you will see that if you "deep cycle" a normal car battery, you will likely just get a dozen cycles out of it before it fails.  A battery designed to better withstand deep discharge (with a different thicker plate structure -- such as some "marine" batteries that you mention) will give you more than a hundred deep discharge-recharge cycles.  The trade off is that it will not supply such a high (short term -- for seconds) instantaneous current eg. 600-800 amps relative to the same size of battery that you get with a common car battery.  [This is the CCA figure you see on car batteries.] The high current capability is useful for turning over your starter motor.

Take home message:-  DO NOT DEEP DISCHARGE YOUR CAR BATTERY IF YOU CAN AVOID DOING SO. You will seriously shorten its life.

Some truck batteries have a mixed mode internal plate design to allow for deep discharge and also deliver a high short term current capability [CCA].  The "calcium" type lead-acid battery has nothing to do with how much CCA (cold cranking amperes) it can deliver -- this is determined by how finely granular and therefore surface area the plates have.  The calcium alloy just helps to delay corrosion on the plates -- one factor affecting battery life.  Incidentally, "calcium" lead-acid batteries tend to show 5% higher voltage for the same level of charge. This is a function of the physics of the materials.

Lastly, I don't think the alternator affects the smoothness of the engine.  It is permanently attached and engaged via the drive belt and spins all the time.  Because of, and relative to the mass and inertial momentum of the spinning internal components it matters little in terms of loading whether you draw a current or not. It is available all the time.  It is only the air conditioning compressor which has a clutch which disengages the compressor when it is not needed and makes a measurable difference (albeit small) to the load on the engine.

Regards.

11

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: Battery issue

« on: 18 January 2013, 01:13:20 AM »

Something to consider. A deep cycle charge every year will prolong the life of the battery to some degree. Do it on the car but with the terminals disconnected of course. It only takes a night to do and a few minutes the next day to hook it back up. No loss of radio 'marriage', but the clock will need doing. Recycle the battery too if you can, after you change it over for the new one. I bet the cold weather is finishing off a few elderly batteries too?

I am not sure a deep discharge and then full charge (as has been advised for some Ni-Cd computer batteries) will do it much good -- if this is what you meant by "deep cycle charge".  There are some "smart" chargers for lead-acid batteries which claim to reverse any small degree of the detrimental sulfation that occurs over time, but the lead-acid battery likes to operate in a near-to-fully-topped-up condition.  An inexpensive digital readout multimeter can give you useful information about the charge level of your battery ( it needs to have rested 6-8hr with no current draw). 

Lots of information here:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/lead_based_batteries

To the original poster: If the battery has been stood for a long period it would be useful to bring it up to full charge with a "smart" charger but it may well have suffered a degree of permanent damage and loss of capacity.  See also article above on decreased/limited life when "deep cycling" car lead acid batteries.

As a side issue I have sometimes had the impression (perhaps subjective) that the car runs smoother when the battery is near full charge rather than when near fully discharged.  My explanation is that the ignition cartridge and associated electronics probably works better with a charged battery buffer to draw on, with an overall more even working voltage, rather than the more choppy voltage you might get when drawing entirely on just what the alternator has to give (as in when the battery is almost flat).  I really need to drive it around with an oscilloscope attached to prove it!

12

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: Jerky when cold 1.9TiD

« on: 11 April 2012, 11:09:27 PM »

An update. 
I have finally taken the plunge and changed the thermostat. Not an entirely straightforward decision as it didn't seem entirely "broken".  The dashboard gauge would show a needle hovering almost at "9 o'clock" or just a few degrees below and it would move about between that small range.  The car seemed to drive alright after the first 5 - 6 miles.  As the thermostat on a 1.9tid costs six times as much to change as on the petrol engines, one needs a good reason to "try a new one".

However since putting in a new thermostat, the temp gauge stays absolutely stuck at 9 o'clock -- however I drive, slow fast, or whatever the traffic conditions --- and my mpg improved  immediately by 2 - 3 mpg!  The moral of the story is that if the temp gauge does anything other than stay absolutely GLUED to 9 o'clock, your thermostat is faulty (unless your fan has stopped working or you have lost all your water!).

Still, even with the improvement in mpg, I reckon it will take me about 16 full tanks of diesel or about 10,000 miles before I recoup the money spent on the new thermostat (parts+labour).  .. and Oh, the car warms up in 4 miles rather than six now.

13

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: Dame Edna tyres - what size?

« on: 09 March 2012, 02:58:07 PM »

To CollyW. 

I think the table you have just posted just specifies the acceptable wheel rims to use so as not to foul the brake calipers on the different engine size models (assuming that you are still using the stock sizes of disks/caliper that the cars are supplied with originally).

The ride and handling would be dependent on (among other things) the relative springing rates of the suspension springs and bounce of the tyres, wheel track, tyre side wall stiffness etc.

Regards.

14

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: Dame Edna tyres - what size?

« on: 07 March 2012, 11:46:44 PM »

Overall diameter with tyres of:
225/45 R17 = 634mm,  215/55 R16 = 643mm
plus 17in vs 16in rim = 1inch = 25mm
Total extra diameter made of rubber = 9+25 = 34mm
Divide by 2 to give 17mm extra height of rubber (below the hub) it is riding on.

15

Classic Saab 9-5 (MY 1998-2010) / Re: Dame Edna tyres - what size?

« on: 07 March 2012, 05:48:17 AM »

Dame Edna -- What size to use? ...

For what its worth, my experience may be helpful to others. We have a D.Edna 2006 Vector Sport Est which came with 225/45 R17 tyres on 7Jx17 inch rims.  I found the ride very harsh and jiggly, much more so than on my older Aero on the same wheel/tyre combination and I think it has to do with some subtle changes in the suspension set up of the post 2005 cars. 

I had a spare set of 16 inch alloys and tried these on the car with 215/55 tyres and have found an immediate and distinct difference. The bouncing over small bumps and imperfections is more muted and it feels much more of a damped wobble rather than a sharp crash. There is a trade off in that the steering does feel sliiightly less sharp (it felt like going round on rails before -- better even than the older Aero) although it holds the same line round the corners. I don't think the roll is much increased -- more or less imperceptible.

Worth thinking about smaller wheels if anyone finds the ride uncomfortable in the later 9-5's as I suspect that the basic suspension setup was optimised for 16 inch wheels and taller tyres.

I should mention that the 16 inch wheels are ET41 whicch has widened the track slightly (16mm) and this may have fed in also into the steering feeling less sharp.

Regards.