Author Topic: Graphite Green 9-5 Aero rescue  (Read 5170 times)

carrera

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Re: Graphite Green 9-5 Aero rescue
« Reply #90 on: 10 December 2019, 09:51:27 PM »
Now I'm using this as a daily, the anticipated gremlins are emerging.

The last couple of days the temperature gauge has not gone to the central position, and after starting the car this morning I had a CEL which turned out to be a P0116.

This seems to be the coolant temperature sensor giving an implausible value, but as the heater was also not as hot as expected I had a read around and the alternate solution was the thermostat.

I tested the sensor and that was showing about 670 ohms which seemed sensible I swapped the thermostat out for a good one on the breaker engine. I do not want to have to do a head gasket job unnecessarily ::)

On my way home I drove with the OBD reader plugged in, monitoring the live temp data. It started out at 50, within 1/2 mile was up to 72, but then dropped back to 70 as I slowed through some roadworks. It seemed to stay at that level doing about 50, then on dual carriageway it rose to 75 and finally finished up at 78 after a 15 minute journey.

The needle was not level and I believe the thermostat is only fully open at 89 so it seems that the car is running cool, but it was warmer than this morning.

Any ideas, or is this normal - I'm pretty sure my blue one would have been up to the horizontal position within about 3 miles ??
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2002 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon

sgould

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Re: Graphite Green 9-5 Aero rescue
« Reply #91 on: 10 December 2019, 10:48:55 PM »
That's not normal on a petrol engine.  All of the three cars I've had have reached temperature by the time I get off the estate and onto the by-pass.  About a mile.

If the thermostat is stuck open the engine temperature will be low and the gauge will drop below horizontal on the motorway at a gentle 70 mph cruise.  It should get to horizontal and stay there if you leave it ticking over at standstill.  If I leave my car ticking over on the hardstanding the fans are triggered regularly every couple of minutes.
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carrera

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Re: Graphite Green 9-5 Aero rescue
« Reply #92 on: 10 December 2019, 11:12:31 PM »
Hmm, that's my experience / expectation too, and what i thought the green one was doing. Thanks for the reply.

Maybe I need to check the fans more closely when I arrive in the morning. The ECU was seeing -40 C when the sensor was unplugged. The coldest I have ever seen was around -30 degrees C, so the Swedes have a bit of latitude for their colder days :)
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2002 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon

carrera

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Re: Graphite Green 9-5 Aero rescue
« Reply #93 on: 11 December 2019, 11:20:22 AM »
This mornings test:

Cold start - read 5 degrees
Within 1/2 mlle up to 50
Then stabilised at 72 on dual carriageway around 70
DC down at 50 teperature dropped to 70
Gave is tome beans for 30 seconds, up to 76
Arrived, back to 72
This is a 15 minute journey
Left it idling,, after 10 minutes up to 92

No fans running at any point.

 I checked the thermostat housing with a thermocouple, that showed something like 82.

Maybe it's just cold, maybe it's because there's no splitter fitted yet and air is being forced over the engine (but then it's just like a non sportskit car), I'll have to get my hands on the grey one to repeat the test.
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2002 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon

sgould

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Re: Graphite Green 9-5 Aero rescue
« Reply #94 on: 11 December 2019, 04:31:14 PM »
I still reckon it's the thermostat.  I would take it out and see if it's a bit open in the normal air temperature.  It will only need to be open a tiny bit.  It's a water valve and that type of "open/shut" valve will pass about 95% of full flow at 5% open!!
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carrera

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Re: Graphite Green 9-5 Aero rescue
« Reply #95 on: 11 December 2019, 05:35:18 PM »
Hmm, two faulty thermostats ??

Fortunately it's an easy job so I might just have to get one from Bill. I was thinking that perhaps there was some debris / blockage keeping the stat part open. I should have had a proper look, rather than just putting the replacement thermostat in.  ::)
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2002 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon

carrera

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Re: Graphite Green 9-5 Aero rescue
« Reply #96 on: 16 December 2019, 10:44:27 PM »
New thermostat from Bill fitted this evening.

The thermostat housing and head were inspected for damage, both were in extremely good condition, they were so clean you would not have thought they had been used. That pink stuff's good.

With no evidence of damage or incorrect fitting the new thermostat was fitted and the car run up to temperature. After a short spin in which the needle went to the horizontal I drove home and the temperature reached a stable 85 to 88 degrees C

Job done, but I'm sure I will look at the s/h thermostat to see if there's any reason why that didn't work. I don't think it's even possible to fit one incorrectly is it, so long as the bleed hole is on the top ?
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sgould

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Re: Graphite Green 9-5 Aero rescue
« Reply #97 on: 16 December 2019, 11:21:12 PM »
Hole at the top is all you need to check. 

Was the O ring seated OK?

I think you may fin that the thermostat is opening at too low a temperature, but may be shut a room temperature.
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carrera

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Re: Graphite Green 9-5 Aero rescue
« Reply #98 on: 16 December 2019, 11:31:09 PM »
Yes, I think the o-ring / rubber gasket was seated correctly.

It's a bit strange to have two components failing in the same way, especially when one of them seemed to be fine in the other car when that engine was installed. I have been reading WIS to discover just how the system works. It's interesting understanding the different flows at different temperatures, designed primarily to ensure occupants can get heat / defrost availability at the earliest opportunity. The method of operation is not obvious by looking at the head casting with a mirror.
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2002 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon

fka

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Re: Graphite Green 9-5 Aero rescue
« Reply #99 on: 17 December 2019, 11:36:17 PM »
Thermostat is something I've been meaning to look at at some point. My needle nearly always sits just under the horizontal. Not sure it's even a huge worry but now you've mentioned it I think I'll start keeping a closer eye on the engine temp, luckily available to me on the OpenSID.

carrera

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Re: Graphite Green 9-5 Aero rescue
« Reply #100 on: 20 December 2019, 08:34:55 PM »
Graphite Green Gremlins  ::)

Electrical ones that is.

Lots of silly niggly things of the type that I never really suffered from on the blue car

* Service theft alarm - Comes up on every engine start, I suspect it will be the usual battery / capacitor issue

* Reversing sensors - These were unplugged at the control box, it seems one or more of them likes to detect things randomly, no errors on Tech 2 I am told

* SID pixels- not many there, I did have to do a repair on the blue one, looks like I need to do the same on this

* RDS time - I can see enough to know the clock / date is not correct. Pressing the two buttons to get the time updates responds with "No RDS time", signal is good and I have tried on Radio 1 / 2 / 4, 4 is usually the one that works. I assume the SID talks to the Kenwood satnav for the RDS signal from FM in someway, or is this a feature from the upgrade ?

* Charging sockets - don't seem to be working

* Locking button - locks, but doesn't unlock, probably a Tech 2 setting

* Chirps when tailgate is unlocked, Tech 2 setting

* Drivers seat manual adjustment knobs now not working, memory positions OK

* Intermittant wipe only working on one delay time
None of this is major, but they'll all take time to sort out
« Last Edit: 22 December 2019, 10:53:50 AM by carrera »
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2002 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon

carrera

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Re: Graphite Green 9-5 Aero rescue
« Reply #101 on: 12 January 2020, 11:12:47 PM »
This weekend I decided to have a go at the SID repair.  Doing that would also allow me to set the date / time manually and see if there was some wire missing that was causing the RDS time not to function.

Last bit first, there was no obviously missing or unplugged cable from the head unit (Saab option Kenwood). As I have no problem with setting the time on the other cars I am coming to the conclusion that the head unit is not integrated with SID on this function. Unless anyone knows better.....

edit:  Someone knows and it looks like I was correct http://www.uksaabs.co.uk/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=154958&start=20  AS1 and AS2 communicate with SID, AS3 doesn't. and now I know what search terms to use https://www.saabscene.com/threads/2004-satnav-as3-software-bugs.86025/ How rubbish is that  :(

Onto the SID. Epic fail.

Having done a bit of revision I tried the heating method first, some pixels returned, more seemed to disappear. Moving onto the sticky pads for additional pressure I noticed that about half the ribbon onto the PCB was completely detached. I decided to fully detach it, but did it by peeling without heat and from that point forwards the display was non functioning. I think I tried about a dozen times using insulating tape to initially hold the ribbon in place but I'm now pretty sure I have removed the contact strips from either the ribbon or the PCB.

I suppose it's time to get another one to repair and do a better job on it. I did the one on the blue car and that was almost 100% effective
« Last Edit: 12 January 2020, 11:28:35 PM by carrera »
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sgould

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Re: Graphite Green 9-5 Aero rescue
« Reply #102 on: 13 January 2020, 09:41:38 AM »
James Vey over on UKSaabs breaks 9-5s as a hobby.  He's based in Nuneaton, but will post stuff.
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