Author Topic: Planning permission or Permissive dev?  (Read 153 times)

wrighar

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Planning permission or Permissive dev?
« on: 13 February 2019, 03:43:17 PM »
So, we are in the middle of a load of building work.

The 1st major for us, but the 3rd for the house.

A minor part of our work with planning approval is adding a porch to the front of the house (2.85m * 1.6m ext, 2.25m*1.3m int).

Does anyone know if I need to get new planing approval (or modified on a 2.5 yr old approval) to go up from that porch to a 2nd storey to extend the front box bedroom, or can it be done within permissive dev.

No change to footprint will occur.

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Re: Planning permission or Permissive dev?
« Reply #1 on: 14 February 2019, 08:31:03 AM »
I don't think you can get away with permitted development to extend the front elevation, or when the elevation being extended faces a public highway

W

fka

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Re: Planning permission or Permissive dev?
« Reply #2 on: 14 February 2019, 11:25:23 AM »
We actually added an extension to our existing porch to our plans for the loft extension, porch yet to be built. Extending the porch directly out from the front of the house by an additional 350mm, width remaining the the same. It's gone through under PD, however we had two options for the roof of the porch. We could either continue the slope of the existing roof out by 350mm or add a pitched roof with a ridge running the center line of the porch. Old pic of the front of our house below for reference.
Adding the pitched roof would have added height to the porch and thus it would have fallen out of what's acceptable under PD. Extending the existing slope out by 350mm obviously kept the height the same and we got it through under PD. Sorry I don't know off the top of my head what the crucial height limit is.. but I'm sure it's less than going up to your second story.


« Last Edit: 14 February 2019, 11:38:18 AM by fka »

Geoff1951

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Re: Planning permission or Permissive dev?
« Reply #3 on: 14 February 2019, 06:08:20 PM »
Er, I don't want to be provocative, but wouldn't the local council's planning department be the best place to seek advice from?

But from my own experience, you'd need to seek new permission.

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Re: Planning permission or Permissive dev?
« Reply #4 on: 14 February 2019, 06:48:38 PM »
They will probably want to charge you for the advice as is the way of most local authorities..the County Councils as the Flood Risk authority charge 100 an hour for advice as does the Environment Agency.

It may be worth having a look at the Planning Portal website to see if that can offer any help. Where I live the local authority don't enforce any minor planning breaches as they can't afford to...the country is gradually slipping into anarchy!

Geoff1951

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Re: Planning permission or Permissive dev?
« Reply #5 on: 14 February 2019, 07:37:36 PM »
They will probably want to charge you for the advice as is the way of most local authorities..the County Councils as the Flood Risk authority charge 100 an hour for advice as does the Environment Agency.

It may be worth having a look at the Planning Portal website to see if that can offer any help. Where I live the local authority don't enforce any minor planning breaches as they can't afford to...the country is gradually slipping into anarchy!




Blimey.
When we extended our house (by 77 sq metres) I found the local authority, Cheshire West & Chester to give it the full title, or CWAC as it's almost universally known, very helpful and no money changed hands until formal submission of plans. But that was eight years ago. 

sgould

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Re: Planning permission or Permissive dev?
« Reply #6 on: 14 February 2019, 10:34:42 PM »
Eight years ago was the onset of Cameron and Osbourne's austerity regime.  That's when the "asset stripping" of the local councils began.
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Norfolk Jim

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Re: Planning permission or Permissive dev?
« Reply #7 on: 18 February 2019, 09:17:55 AM »
yes - in my professional capacity you will require a new Planning Permission. Anything larger than a small single storey porch on the front of any dwelling will require a Householder Planning Application. Permitted Dev will only allow a small porch.

Are you under South Norfolk there Andrew? If so they are pretty good at chatting through things and will soon say if they find it acceptable and would give approval.

In any case the magic height is 4m but this cannot be attached to any post 1948 extension on houses that are more than 4m high. Eaves max 3m within 7m of boundary.

Quite a few people have fallen foul on PD trying to build extensions just under 4m high but not realising they have attached to a previous extension which is taller even if the taller section followed round a corner. It is a battle I constantly have all round the country for the company I work for. All I do each day is gain Planning Approval on our projects - Best so far was Permitted Developement on a house in Kettlewell in York Dales Conservation Area. Planners said needed permission but I found otherwise and obtained Certificate of Lawfull Development confirming PD.
« Last Edit: 18 February 2019, 09:23:42 AM by Norfolk Jim »
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Norfolk Jim

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Re: Planning permission or Permissive dev?
« Reply #8 on: 18 February 2019, 09:25:45 AM »
They will probably want to charge you for the advice as is the way of most local authorities..the County Councils as the Flood Risk authority charge 100 an hour for advice as does the Environment Agency.

It may be worth having a look at the Planning Portal website to see if that can offer any help. Where I live the local authority don't enforce any minor planning breaches as they can't afford to...the country is gradually slipping into anarchy!




Blimey.
When we extended our house (by 77 sq metres) I found the local authority, Cheshire West & Chester to give it the full title, or CWAC as it's almost universally known, very helpful and no money changed hands until formal submission of plans. But that was eight years ago.

Cheshire East are a total PITA especially around Stockport and Wilmslow! Had one application left 7.5 weeks before they did anything and then wanted to refuse; I created merry hell about the delay and had a sharp e-mail exchange with Head of Planning who agree it hadn't been fully assessed and we got permission.
Who said diesels dead - mine goes allriot

wrighar

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Re: Planning permission or Permissive dev?
« Reply #9 on: 18 February 2019, 06:54:27 PM »
yes - in my professional capacity you will require a new Planning Permission. Anything larger than a small single storey porch on the front of any dwelling will require a Householder Planning Application. Permitted Dev will only allow a small porch.

Are you under South Norfolk there Andrew? If so they are pretty good at chatting through things and will soon say if they find it acceptable and would give approval.

In any case the magic height is 4m but this cannot be attached to any post 1948 extension on houses that are more than 4m high. Eaves max 3m within 7m of boundary.

Quite a few people have fallen foul on PD trying to build extensions just under 4m high but not realising they have attached to a previous extension which is taller even if the taller section followed round a corner. It is a battle I constantly have all round the country for the company I work for. All I do each day is gain Planning Approval on our projects - Best so far was Permitted Developement on a house in Kettlewell in York Dales Conservation Area. Planners said needed permission but I found otherwise and obtained Certificate of Lawfull Development confirming PD.

Yes, we are South Norfolk, and just mid build for 2016/1560 which includes a front porch.
https://info.south-norfolk.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=O9LDYCOQGUH00

We were just wondering if it would be sensible to go up full height over the porch to extend what will be the smallest bedroom and maybe our future en-suite in time to come.

It would be cheap to do now, compared to later, but may be just too difficult.
I may speak to the planning lady as she due to check roof level next week.

Also, going full height, it may preclude light to our lounge/living room, so maybe better we don't.

Norfolk Jim

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Re: Planning permission or Permissive dev?
« Reply #10 on: 19 February 2019, 10:07:00 AM »
If you did go up 2 storeys I think it might look a little odd with the small hipped section going back into the main roof but it is possible; planner may baulk a little at it and try to look at the effect it has on the streetscene. It might look like a little blip on the roof. You'll then have the quandary about location of the first floor window? Do you have it central or off-centre like the entrance frames?? Little things like this will bug you!!!

I don't think you'd really notice the minimal amount of light reduction into your living room to be honest as it won't be much more than the proposed porch roof causes to start with. It would only be during the darker months of the year when the sun is lower in the afternoons.
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wrighar

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Re: Planning permission or Permissive dev?
« Reply #11 on: 19 February 2019, 11:09:58 AM »
Luckily, several other houses in the estate have already built over their porch's, so there should be precedent.

All of those have for/aft eves and apex's though

3 in our street alone
« Last Edit: 19 February 2019, 11:16:35 AM by wrighar »

Norfolk Jim

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Re: Planning permission or Permissive dev?
« Reply #12 on: 19 February 2019, 03:33:46 PM »
Hmmm.. doesn't always set a precedent though and councils are now quick to point that out but those look terrible and in any case different design to your home anyway; you've got a hipped roof and not end on like those.

Have a chat with planner but as I said you've got a hard decision to decide where to site the first floor window! Your designer/technologist should sort some options for you like I would.
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