Author Topic: Have I been Hirsched ?  (Read 2188 times)

carrera

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Have I been Hirsched ?
« on: 26 August 2019, 10:02:57 PM »
My MY2003 grey Aero has a Hirsch badge on the back and it delivers power differently to my 2002 blue car.

Is there a way to find out if the map has been breathed on, or did a previous owner simply aspire to something they could not afford so bought a badge ?

I have looked at the ECU data through Tech 2, it seems to be a 2003 software version / number, but with a 2007 programming date

Is there a way to be sure ?
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate

Audax

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Re: Have I been Hirsched ?
« Reply #1 on: 26 August 2019, 10:09:59 PM »
If you look at the ECU data with Tech-2 it should have an identifier of something like "Vendor: Hirsch" where normally it would be "Vendor: Saab", I can't quite remember the exact output but it should be clear with a Tech-2 but then saying that maybe Hirsch didn't always update the Vendor or Supplier string in the firmware. Either way if you have an 02 Aero and an 03 Aero and the one that has a Hirsch badge on is noticeably different then it has been remapped, it's fairly self evident when you drive them. I remember a customer turning up in a 1.8t 9-3 SS and saying "I was told it had been hirsched, can you check?" basically a 2 minute test drive confirmed it...

carrera

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Re: Have I been Hirsched ?
« Reply #2 on: 26 August 2019, 10:47:19 PM »
Cheers for that.

I have photos of the two screens that we looked at, neither of them have vendor details, but then again, when we looked we weren't quite sure which screens to look at  ::)

The performance is different. By comparison the 2002 one picks up more quickly at lower revs and is more responsive , but then runs out of puff with less lag, whereas the grey one keeps on pulling for another 500 rpm or so before the power starts dropping off. So it's not night and day, and the grey one has done just 150k, the blue over 325k and is ready for a refresh.
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sgould

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Re: Have I been Hirsched ?
« Reply #3 on: 27 August 2019, 07:13:15 AM »
When I had my 2002 saloon Hirsched, it involved a few hardware upgrades.  A bigger air box and filter. A bigger intercooler. A bigger cast cobra pipe down to the turbo, later adopted by Saab as a standard, at least on the Aero. and an uprated fuel pressure relief valve to 3.5 bar, from 3 bar.

It shouldn’t run out of puff at higher revs though.
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David

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Re: Have I been Hirsched ?
« Reply #4 on: 27 August 2019, 09:35:22 AM »
Sent an email to Hirsch FAO Felix, giving your VIN number and if it is Hirsched he will send you a copy of the certificate.

As Will says, the Hirsch remap means the car simply keep pulling, where others tend to fall off.

carrera

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Re: Have I been Hirsched ?
« Reply #5 on: 27 August 2019, 10:49:25 AM »
Thanks for the additional replies.

I have looked at the grey car and the only difference I can see is that the casting mark on the rear of the cobra near the pressure connection is flat to the outer surface rather than protruding about 5mm on the blue car. Other than that they seem to have the same outer dimensions.

I have emailed Felix as suggested, thanks for the contact information,  I will see what they say and post back
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carrera

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Re: Have I been Hirsched ?
« Reply #6 on: 27 August 2019, 06:25:23 PM »
I received a reply from Hirsch today.

My VIN isn't in their database, but apparently early cars were registered manually, with a black sticker on the ECU.

I have responded with the ECU information I got from Tech 2, but it's beginning to look less likely that I have been Hirsched.

Hats off for great customer service though  :)
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate

sgould

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Re: Have I been Hirsched ?
« Reply #7 on: 27 August 2019, 10:39:11 PM »
I've found a picture of the Hirsch cobra pipe from my 2002 9-5 saloon.
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carrera

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Re: Have I been Hirsched ?
« Reply #8 on: 28 August 2019, 08:13:21 AM »
That photo looks like the job had just been done, and to be honest I cannot see the difference between that and stock, but I am sure there must be one.

I had a rapid response this morning from Hirsch - stock software  :(

So, if I haven't been Hirsched, how come the power delivery of the two cars is so different, is that simply differences in the Saab software from year to year.

By the way, I have found this http://www.arcoruighaver.nl/saab93se/spssaabdb_NLD.htm which shows all the software versions, which also pushed me to thinking mine was stock, though with a 2007 programming date.
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fka

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Re: Have I been Hirsched ?
« Reply #9 on: 28 August 2019, 11:27:15 AM »
Could be there's a fault with one of the cars restricting output? Or another tuner has had their hands on the ECU and the PO put a Hirsch badge on?
Can you access OpenSID by pressing together and holding for a few seconds the + and - buttons on the SID?

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Re: Have I been Hirsched ?
« Reply #10 on: 28 August 2019, 03:06:49 PM »
My picture was 18 months after fitting! :)

I was working then, so c. 30,000 miles?
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carrera

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Re: Have I been Hirsched ?
« Reply #11 on: 28 August 2019, 03:25:55 PM »
My blue Aero was having its 30,000 service at just 6 months old  ;D, she's been a hard worker all her life.

I have been out to the grey car and there's no reaction to the + / - buttons, so I don't think it has been breathed upon at all.

As for a fault with one of the cars, well, yes, there are a few things need doing to the blue one as it is consuming oil with a small matter of 325,000 miles on the clock. Maybe I just need to get on with the rebuild, or perhaps I'll wait until the graphite green one is sorted and use that as a further comparison.

If I didn't know better I would say that the blue one had a shorter stroke stroke crank, but it certainly feels more responsive when it has decent plugs. It's reasonable not to expect her to be performing as well at high revs with the mileage, but she doesn't get that much strenuous exercise these days, partly for longevity and mechanical sympathy reasons. She did a European tour a couple of years ago, on the autobahns as well at a decent cruising speed, and never missed a beat, just needed a regular top up of oil. Well you do if you're doing 500 miles a day
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fka

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Re: Have I been Hirsched ?
« Reply #12 on: 28 August 2019, 05:37:37 PM »
As far as I know it's only noobtune who'd enable openSID by default. Still could be have been tweaked by someone else..

carrera

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Re: Have I been Hirsched ?
« Reply #13 on: 28 August 2019, 05:45:36 PM »
So that leaves Maptun and any other engine mapper who know what they are doing with T7

Do Maptun leave any markers following the programming (and the programming date is 2007 which seems to be a smoking gun). Alternatively, if the ECU was replaced, would that programming date be present in the ECU (and I suppose, how would it even know ?)
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fka

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Re: Have I been Hirsched ?
« Reply #14 on: 28 August 2019, 08:26:02 PM »
My OG 9-3 came with a stage 1 Abbott tune. That ECU had an Abbott sticker on it and I think an ID number. Karl (noobtune) used to change the BIN file name but now I think he keeps the stock name so he has a record of it. I don't know how the Maptuner works, if it re-flashes a new bin file or makes adjustments to the stock BIN. If the former, I'd expect to see a standard Maptun BIN filename. .. Not sure either if TechII allows you to view the bin file name somewhere??

EDit*** There's also a number of other tuners that are or have been in business. I think markE has posted a list somewhere..
« Last Edit: 28 August 2019, 08:30:29 PM by fka »