Author Topic: 9-5 Door mirrors not moving  (Read 23677 times)

sgould

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9-5 Door mirrors not moving
« on: 31 May 2021, 10:37:23 PM »
I might be in for a long haul. The door mirrors have stopped moving. Both sides. All fuses OK.  And the door switch connector seems to be connected. Tech2 can't move anything in "Activate" mode.  I'm beginning to suspect the memory mirror module.   The seat memory is working OK.  I will have to check the wiring continuity before trying a new module, and there are a lot of wires...
« Last Edit: 03 June 2021, 02:55:35 PM by sgould »
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carrera

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Re: What I Did To My Saab Today.
« Reply #1 on: 01 June 2021, 12:37:18 AM »
Oooh, that's sort of good news for me

Both mirriors are free to move by hand on the black car, but only move about 1cm before stopping. I'll be interested in he resolution
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD, 9-5 NG Aero 2WD Turbo4

phoenix

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9-5 Door mirrors not moving
« Reply #2 on: 01 June 2021, 08:36:56 AM »
Will, are they on the 9-5 or 9-3? IIRC the motors are the same. My 9-5 has an (annoying) intermittent reverse dip function. Pots etc. read OK on Tech 2 but it doesn't work.
« Last Edit: 03 June 2021, 02:56:04 PM by sgould »

sgould

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9-5 Door mirrors not moving
« Reply #3 on: 01 June 2021, 09:24:16 AM »
This is the 9-5.  The Tech2 gives a voltage for both the mirror motors and both vertical and horizontal directions, but they don’t move at all.  I can’t get then to move when activated with the door switch, the memory seat buttons or the Tech 2.  The memory seats are still working, but their control unit is in the seat.

Both sides stopped at the same time.  The small reverse button doesn’t work either, but then, it was always very hit and miss, and probably wasn’t working before the rest failed.  I have a workaround for the reverse button. I use position 2 of the memory seats to set the mirrors to the reverse view. That also has the advantage the the mirror doesn’t revert back to “normal” if you select a forward gear.  That becomes tedious if you are going to and fro to manoeuvre into a tight space. But that doesn’t happen at the moment either.

Unlikely to be any work on the car today, I’m going to London to meet a friend I haven’t seen for over a year.

[edit] Just to add that I saw no error codes on the Tech2 until I tried to use the Tech2 to activate the mirrors.  Then it showed the "Open/short circuit on mirror motor..." but only on the functions I tried to activate.  The error codes didn't appear after I tried using the door switch to move the mirrors.

And to add a bit further, I seem to be known as a critic of Orio parts prices.  But in this case I have found secondhand power mirror modules on eBay from £15 to £112.  But the Saab parts price, as per Saabits, is £58. 
« Last Edit: 03 June 2021, 02:56:17 PM by sgould »
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carrera

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9-5 Door mirrors not moving
« Reply #4 on: 02 June 2021, 09:33:24 PM »
I just had a look at the wiring diagram

Because you said both sides stopped working at the same time (& IIRC you have PMM) I went looking for a common part of the circuit. The only bit I could see was the PMM module. I don't know how the Tech II gets the voltage message, if it's the i-bus, then perhaps the PMM is getting the signal to provide voltage to the mirrors but failing to provide the output ???



« Last Edit: 03 June 2021, 02:56:29 PM by sgould »
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD, 9-5 NG Aero 2WD Turbo4

sgould

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9-5 Door mirrors not moving
« Reply #5 on: 02 June 2021, 10:08:43 PM »
That's the conclusion I'm coming to.  I didn't do anything today.  It was very hot and then I had a dental appointment.  I was going out at  4pm to put in a couple of hours, and then it rained... :(

Tomorrow, then...
« Last Edit: 03 June 2021, 02:56:46 PM by sgould »
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sgould

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Re: 9-5 Door mirrors not moving
« Reply #6 on: 03 June 2021, 03:05:30 PM »
Well, it may be a bit easier now that I've found that the wire colours to the door switch are not as WIS for my 2007 car.  They are the same as the 2005 car.  Hopefully the rest of the wiring is 2005, or I will be getting cross swapping around the computer...
« Last Edit: 03 June 2021, 06:35:44 PM by sgould »
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sgould

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Re: 9-5 Door mirrors not moving
« Reply #7 on: 03 June 2021, 05:25:30 PM »
Well, the wiring is coloured as per 2005, at least in the door, but the pin schematic for the mirror has the colours in the connector as a mirror image of reality...

Then some thoughts.  Since the mirrors are not working with the door switch or the memory seats, I think that I have worked out some of the wiring, and the double wires in the door switch are where the power feeds in from the PMM when sent by the seats.  When the memeory seat is moved, the mirror powered movement by-passes the door switch.

So the PMM is looking more likely.  I've got it out and it comes apart quite easily, but there is no sign of any issues within.  After a cup of tea, I will be checking the input power.

There is one snag.  I had the door switch out and I'm finding that pressing the control buttons isn't showing much connectivity. Puzzled by this at the moment.  As it worked recently as did the memory seats. 

I may have to change the PMM on spec and see what happens.

Nothing visible on the board...
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carrera

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Re: 9-5 Door mirrors not moving
« Reply #8 on: 03 June 2021, 08:01:44 PM »
Just an update on mine, in case it helps

Manually moved the mirrors & memorised the seat position

The mirrors move with the seat position so I have the ex 1991 Cavalier mirror switch to try & test the electrical connection

Might be worth just dumping some contact spray in & wiggling vigourously  ;)

IIRC the drivers mirror does not use the PMM for either feed or earth, will need to study that complicated wiring diagram again
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD, 9-5 NG Aero 2WD Turbo4

sgould

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Re: 9-5 Door mirrors not moving
« Reply #9 on: 03 June 2021, 09:20:52 PM »
Mirror folding was sluggish, better when the engine was running.  That looks like some lubrication needed.  It improved a bit after i unhooked and rehooked the door connector, but still no twitch on the mirror glass movement.

And I forgot...   The wiring colours into and out of the PMM are as per the 2007 WIS. ::)

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carrera

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Re: 9-5 Door mirrors not moving
« Reply #10 on: 03 June 2021, 09:30:30 PM »
Sluggish mirrors when engine off are perhaps indicative of a feed / earth problem

13.6/12.6 volts should probably not be noticeable, but 13.6 / 10v for example will be

I am unable to get any continuity on my door switch. I could dismantle it, but should probably just bang another one on as a quick test at the weekend

Pin 1, usual Saab black,  is earth, try a continuity test on that
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD, 9-5 NG Aero 2WD Turbo4

sgould

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Re: 9-5 Door mirrors not moving
« Reply #11 on: 03 June 2021, 10:26:20 PM »
Earth continuity is fine.  So is the 12v feed to pin 2.  But from pin 2 to the other pins is not good.  I had the switch apart a few years ago and it was clean inside.  I may have another look.  A new switch is "out of stock" from Orio and £82 when it's in stock.  I'm not sure that I want to risk a secondhand one.  There are none in the UK on eBay and the cheapest is about £30 from Lithuania...

Voltage is still around 12v with the engine off.  I haven't flattened the battery yet with all the open doors!  I may have to buy some contact cleaner, my old tin seems to be on the way out.
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carrera

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Re: 9-5 Door mirrors not moving
« Reply #12 on: 03 June 2021, 11:29:14 PM »
Away from home, limited resources...

I used the probes from the DMM to separate the two halves of the switch. Rubbed the edge of a cotton towel over the contact section & it came away with a brownish smudge.

Reassembled & I now have continuity between 1 & 6 (revering dip) and 1 & 4 on the ball. I'll refit it tomorrow morning, fingers crossed
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD, 9-5 NG Aero 2WD Turbo4

sgould

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Re: 9-5 Door mirrors not moving
« Reply #13 on: 04 June 2021, 12:17:27 AM »
Good luck!  I think I'll be a day behind you doing the same.
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carrera

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Re: 9-5 Door mirrors not moving
« Reply #14 on: 04 June 2021, 08:32:52 AM »
Thanks !

Your wishes worked, plugged it back in and both mirrors working correctly.

Just a build up of grunge, probably partly attributed to a period of non use

Good luck with yours 
9-5 Aero Estates, 2002 Cosmic Blue, 2003 Steel Grey, 2003 Graphite Green, 2004 9-5 Glacier Blue 2.0 saloon, 2004 Nocturne Blue 2.2 diesel estate, 2006 & 2008 Black Aero saloons, 1998 9000 CSE with Aero engine, 9-5 NG Aero XWD Turbo4, 9-5 NG Aero XWD TTiD, 9-5 NG Aero 2WD Turbo4