2.2 Diesel, non starter P0607 (6)

[carrera]

... and now this post makes sense

https://www.trionictuning.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12408

[carrera]

Well, that seemed to work, after waiting for 240 seconds, the Immo codes were sorted. I did have a P1613 remaining, but operation of the key fob and a power cycle seemed to sort that.

I am now in that difficult position of bleeding the fuel system. I have used my suction bleeder, which I am never impressed with and have fuel (and air) at the schrader valve. I also tried pressurising the tank to force fuel out of the schrader valve, but that didn't seem to work this time. The spare batteries I have to use are not up to scratch, which is making life more difficult than need be, but running the starter with jump leads from the TTID & some brake cleaner (my easy start) in the intake tract has shown some signs of life, I reckon I have one cylinder bled through. The battery that is in the car is on charge, I'll give it time to top up the charge & then try again, with the jump car in circuit & see if I can get the car fired up.

When I first rescued this car it was an absolute nightmare to get it running, but once the fuel was pulled through everything was fine. The fact that it is firing one one cylinder is indicative that the pump is installed correctly & working - I acquired the pump on an engine of unknown heritage

[Audax]

Good luck with that, they are a nightmare to get the fuel through and primed. It's always the fear that you did something wrong or the pump is faulty that makes you wonder if it will ever fire. We used to put them on the garage car starter and run them 30 seconds at a time, then wait a while... if not you might burn out the starter motor... don't ask how I know that.

[carrera]

Still working in it....

I did get it toi fire & run for about 3 seconds, then it died, chucking a p0149 code. The resolution of which is to check the valve timing. Yeah, been there, just done that.

You're spot on about the fear that I did something wrong, or that the pump isn't working. 

I'm not going to use the garage starter as that is a suspect regarding the failure of the original pump. I have been using the TTid as a jump car, which does mean that the starter achieves a reasonable speed, but I'm not convinced about the delivery amps when the engine is running. Probably some bit of electronics on the power system I don't understand, so I'm charging up the old TTiD battery, which was rated as 900 AH when new. Probably about 200 now   and will see if that works. The good thing about my battery charger is it will deliver enough in normal charging mode to charge a battery up in 15-20 minutes

I have continued to try & bleed the fuel system using my suction bleeder. The rear of the car is jacked up. So far I have pulled through 2 litres of fuel, and it's still pulling air through. The first litre was pretty black, it's now much more towards a clear fluid.

I also have a hand fluid transfer pump. That did nothing

The fuel gauge shows half a tank. I might pull the level sensor out, just to make sure it isn't lying to me

What's the standard time for bleeding a 2.2 TiD ?

[Audax]

That's an alarming code,I had a look at the 9-5 diagnostics and it's suggests timing, but if you look in wis under the 9-3 then it suggests it's a pump fault: https://saabwisonline.com/9-3-9400/2002/2-engine/psg-16-d223l/fault-diagnosis-diagnostic-trouble-codes/p0149

I would say clear the code, try again. But given where you're at and that you've got fuel through I'm wondering if that pump is faulty 

[carrera]

I cleared the code and it has not recurred

In my mind I thought it may be related to my use of easy start (ignitable substance being available before anticipated compression ignition firing point). It has not recurred, and the car has no DTC codes, in fact none since that one.

With judicious use of brake cleaner in the inlet pipe from the intercooler, I have been able to fire it up & have it fun for a few seconds. The revs climb to ~ 3000 rpm and then it dies. This tells me that the camshaft timing is correct

I'm now up to 5 litres fuel pulled through, and still getting air. I might see if the old "unscrew the nuts on the end of the injectors" method might work to bleed it through. Had to do that on my truck a few weeks ago, you get one cylinder at a time firing. However, the nuts aren't really accessible without disassembly of cam cover & air inlet, so it's a lot of faffing around for each cylinder individually

I'm starting to think that there might be an air leak on the fuel delivery line. Even if the pump was toast, I should still be able to get an air free fuel feed to it, shouldn't I ?

[carrera]

Getting serious about using gravity assist now...

[carrera]

Well, that was a disappointing day

I pulled the connectors off the injectors & cranked it over. Initially there were only signs of fuel at number one, but after cranking there was fuel at all four, so that's positive.

Still pulling air through

No error codes unless I use easy start

The revcounter seems a bit slow to respond, I might take a look at where that gets its signal from, I assume the CPS. At least they are easy to access & remove on this engine

After being left for a few minutes, it does at least seem like it is trying to start with a couple of light kicks.

Some more reading & thinking is in order. Air leak on the feed line (but no diesel leak), seals onto injectors not installed correctly, so diesel not getting to the injector nozzle, air coming from the schrader valve, which would be a false error, but then the car would start

[Audax]

The 2.2 doesn't need a working CPS to run, if it loses signal from the main one it actually uses a signal generated from the diesel pump as that's timed... Anyway good news on the codes, you had me alarmed at first!

[carrera]

Thanks, it seems there is much behind the comment that "if a sensor fails the pump has it's own default values". It makes sense because on a traditional diesel pump / Kugelfisher petrol injection it was always about the timing of the injection, so there has to be a mechanical reference. Looking inside the old pump I did notice a wheel with very fine teeth, which is I assume its own internal CPS.

Battle has recommenced, I concluded that I needed to get back to basics, which would include checking my own work as well as other things... https://saabwisonline.com/9-5-9600/2005/2-engine/fuel-system-diesel/fault-diagnosis-fault-symptoms/fault-diagnosis-in-connection-with-long-start-time-diesel

First test was the leak back pipe vacuum test. Spectacular failure

Then each injector seperately. Spectacular failure

So, it's going to be camshaft out & remove / check replace the injector seals.

When I was doing this a couple of days ago, cylinder 3 & 4 injectors stayed in place, so I just replaced the seals. Don't mess about with things if you don't have to..... But when I got to number 2 the injector came out instead of the seal coming off. Same for number 1. This was surprising as WIS clearly shows that you need a special tool to extract them. This time I might see if 3 & 4 fancy going for a walk & I will then use the copper washers. Looking in my ebay history I can see I bought a seal kit 3 years ago, as well as the one a couple of weeks ago. I'll have to see if I can find it.

Minimal parts removal to get the camshaft out and I find that the camshaft is no longer in line with the TDC position on the camshaft, when the tensioners are in place. So perhaps those p0149 DTC's were actually correct, or perhaps when I remove the upper tensioner it will come back into the datum point.

That's the next job. I don't have a new bolt, and until I did the job didn't expect that the camshaft was a friction fit. Perhaps I need to give an extra nip upon reassembly with a used bolt. I have considered thread lock, but I don't think that will do anything useful, what I think I am seeing is that rotational torque is not producing the correct clamping torque

If the leak off pipes are not sealed, then pulling fuel with the suction pump will be pulling fuel, and air, from the rubber pipe that is on the banjo to the fuel pump inlet, so that's definitely going to be a problem 
 

[carrera]

A little update, there's good news and bad news

The good news first. Having removed the camshaft and injector bridges I tried to evaluate if one of the injector bridges could hold the 0.9 bar in the test. Not possible with my finger over the orifice. Tested the hose, using my finger. All OK. Confirmed that the central hole is for the injector and the off centre orifice is for the return. Check. There was only one option remaining, try another piece of pipe, fortunately I had some vacuum hose lying around. That worked, using my finger to seal the orifice. That means I just needed to do the final test, reassemble an injector, connect the fuel bridge, pull the vacuum & wait 10 minutes while I have a coffee & write this

The test has been passed, which is good news, but annoying. I discounted a problem with the return bridges because I had already replaced them myself to solve the slow start problem not long after buying the car, perhaps 10k miles. Additionally, I did pull on them before installing the bridges a couple of days ago and they did not want to come off

So that's the good news

The bad news is that, somehow, I ended up with too much pressure on the trolley jack which I used to support the engine to get access to the top tensioner. This has manifested itself as a pool of oil from a cracked sump 

So when todays work on reassembling the engine is done, I have to remove the sump from the spare engine & swap them over.

All because the fuel return hoses were not up to spec 

It is of course possible that this was the underlying cause of the original non start condition...

[carrera]

Well, it's all back together again

Tonight's homework will be reading how to do a sump replacement. I do hope there aren't any awkward bits

On reflection, it seems I was too willing to assume my own work was faulty. If only I had decided to do a quick pipe replacement on one of the injectors first, instead of diving in, I wouldn't have lost a whole day and probably much of tomorrow with the sump. Ah well... on the bright side she might be running sometime tomorrow