Help, lost keys for 2002 95

[Greenr28]

I originally posted in the wrong section, sorry, hope I got it right this time.

My friend at work lost her keys for her 2002 95.  At this time, she can't afford to go through the procedure of replacing the TWICE module, buy new keys, programming, etc., big $$ when you have NO keys!  It's my understanding that the TWICE module disables the starter rely by not supplying a ground to the relay ground side of the coil.  Is that the only thing that's disabled or is fuel or ignition disabled too?  After looking at the wiring diagram for this car, it looks like if she bought a non transponder key that fits the doors and the ignition switch, the relay could be jumped while the key is in the start postion.  Just to get it running for the time being, the relay could be taken out, a push button could be installed between the two terminals, incoming power and starter "S" terminals.  Does any of this sound doable?  Also, the car was locked using her remote before losing the keys.  I've read that if the door is unlocked manually with a key, that will disable the alarm.  Does that sound right?

Thanks, RG

[Max Headroom]

Heheh - I was about to move that for you - but you reposted and beat me to it!

Good luck with sorting this dilemma out RG - Im sure someone will be along soon and help answer your questions! 

Welcome to STT by the way! 

[Saabman]

To get a replacement key cut from Saab will cost about £60 that will open the door and fit the ignition but not start the car, or you could buy a second hand lock kit and twice unit of a well known auction site for £40 upwards and have it coded in for £60ish and then the job's right.
You would however have to gain access and also get the old ign barrel out first, but these are not to hard to do if you know what your doing 

[Audax]

Why would you need the old ignition barrel out first? What you need is a used TWICE module with a programmed transponder and another transponder and 2 new keys from Saab. Then you can get someone to program the lot together with Tech-II. I'd suggest calling your local independent or dealer to see if they can do the entire job and how much they will charge if they have any second hand parts available. Although, the poster is not in the UK so may not have a local Saab person available.

Anyhow, if the car has an alarm fitted you will set the alarm off when getting into the car and there's no way to get around that. If you open the door with a key you will set the alarm off until you put that key with recognised transponder into the ignition and switch it to the on position. Effectively the security of the car means that it will set the alarm off when using a key to open the door as it doesn't know if that get is legitimate or not, if someone stole the keys or ordered one from Saab you wouldn't want it to open the car without the alarm going off!

[Greenr28]

Thanks for all the replies.  First let me say, I do understand what needs to be done (the right way), but that's expensive (maybe up to $1,000.00) if taken to dealer or independent, no way around it.  If I can find a used TWICE module with at least one matching chip, then that would bring the cost down.  I've seen them on EBay for under $300.00 (but there's always a risk when going that route).  I do have access to a TECH II scan tool, but have never done anything with a Saab, so it would be a learning experience for me.  I can remove the module for her and replace it with a new, used, send in for re-flashing one, etc. and I wouldn't charge her to do that, but I need to get in the car first without the alarm going off.  I was hoping that getting a key from the dealer that would open the door would also turn off the alarm, but it sounds like the alarm will go off even when manually unlock with a correctly cut key.  Has anyone actually tried just that?  Using the remote to arm it and unlocking the car with the key itself to see what happens?  I'm not doubting what I'm reading, but I've learned to keep asking questions as in the past I've been given conflicting information many times.  If the car were towed to the dealer, is the alarm going to go off when the tow truck driver lifts it up either from the front or rear?  What will the dealer do when the car arrives there, they don't have any way of turning off the alarm other than disconnecting the battery?  Is there a battery backup for the siren?  If I were to open the door with just a key manually, can I just pull the fuse for the siren?  According to my wiring diagram, it's fuse #6 in the "under hood fuse/relay block, left rear corner of engine compt".  If the alarm is set off, does it trigger any crippling effect on the car or does it just make a lot of noise?  So many questions and so little knowledge on my part about this car.  I would really like to help her if I can, as she doesn't have much money, so every dollar I can save her is helpful.  Thanks, RG

[Saabman]

Why would you need the old ignition barrel out first?

I was meaning to keep it on a budget not buying a key from Saab and just using and coding a second hand unit and keys in as I did a while ago for a customer, lock set from Neo's and coded in as there keys had been stolen 

[harryO]

When I lost a key a year or so back, I went to my local police station to see if it had been handed in. The 'lost property' guy got out a box with about 200 keys in it. Many of them were the expensive car key type with electronic units attached/within. Mine was not there - later found in the home - but the moral of the story is to check whether or not the original key has truly been 'lost' before going to the expense of replacement.  Apparently, very few people ever call in to check for lost keys!

[Audax]

I was hoping that getting a key from the dealer that would open the door would also turn off the alarm, but it sounds like the alarm will go off even when manually unlock with a correctly cut key.  Has anyone actually tried just that?  Using the remote to arm it and unlocking the car with the key itself to see what happens?

I can assure you that it will set the alarm off, I've dealt with exactly this situation several times in the past. Opening the door will set the alarm off, lifting the car will trigger the tilt sensor and set the alarm off (probably!), disconnecting the battery will also set the alarm off (I think!). The alarm should cut out after 2 minutes, but this does vary on which country the car was sold in and how the alarm system was programmed. You could always try to remove the alarm siren with the backup batteries in but I'm not sure quite what would happen in that case.

[sgould]

I'm pretty sure that removing the alarm box and battery will only generate a "Service Theft Alarm" message on the SID.  It will stop the alarm, but the car will be immobilised until a new key is married to the car.  A physical metal key will open doors and turn the ignition, but the car will not start.

A new key from Saab will not be married to the car.  That can only be done in the car with the TechII device connected.  But the TechII needs a valid married key/transponder to allow access to the car's security system. Which is where the problem lies if you have lost both of the valid keys.

Also, the GM TechII diagnostic computer will need the Saab software installed to do the marrying/enabling.

[Greenr28]

Thanks again to all.  That's not what I wanted to hear, I was surely hoping that opening the door with the key would also turn off the alarm.  So the first order of business is to get a key from the dealer, get into the car, deal with the alarm.  I do have access to All Data and Mitchell OnDemand and All Data says there is a battery backup built into the siren unit.  It does say if the main battery or the siren fuse is pulled (power is cut), the siren will still operate if it's been activated.  What it doesn't say is, if the siren is unplugged will it shut off.  On some cars, you can use the key to turn off the alarm by inserting in either the driver or passenger door lock and turning it several time back and forth to shut it off.  I'm guess this feather won't work with this Saab.  The next step is to get the car somewhere I can work on it, as it's in her work parking lot at this time and I don't think they want me pulling the seat and carpet up to gain access to the module and the rainy weather is just setting in too, so not interested in messing with it outside.  Once I get the module out, I will try to find a used one with matching key/chip to put in it's place, swap out the chip into the new key, borrow the TECH II scanner and see if I can get it programmed and hopefully running!  If I've left anything out, please jump in and point me in the right direction.  Almost forgot, there was mention of the car being disabled if the alarm was activated, but no mention of what was disabled or how.  Is it disabling the starter relay like it does if the wrong key is used?  Thanks, RG

[phoenix]

What it doesn't say is, if the siren is unplugged will it shut off.

If the car has been locked with the remote and you remove the alarm unit, the alarm will sound. You have to unlock the car first with the remote fob to disable this security feature. Thereafter you can do what you want with the siren unit and it will stay mute.

If it is towed, odds are the alarm will activate because of the anti-tilt sensor.

Basically, you can't avoid having the alarm go off one way or another.

I think the anti-theft is a little more clever than simply interrupting the starter relay- I'll check later.

[sgould]

The alarm siren box is behind/below the left hand headlight.  The box is removed by taking out the front wheel arch liner.  I suppose you could remove this from outside the car, but you would need to wear ear plugs!!

TWICE is under the driver's seat.  Saab say the seat should come out.  But there are only three plastic nuts.  SO maybe it's not necessary.

[Steve440]

I am probably completely wrong here but if you supply power to the ECU that would allow that to work.

If you supply power the starter motor that would allow that to turn.

This could be achieved with jumper wires or similar.

Does the twice unit supply power or create an earth path?

Either could be achieved with ''new wires''.

I am sure they alarm could be silences by either removal or cutting the appropriate wires.

I am sure all this could be achieved with some second hand parts and some time with the Tech 2 but if the budget is not available maybe its a way of getting it going.

Steve

[Audax]

I am probably completely wrong here but if you supply power to the ECU that would allow that to work.

Afraid that you are wrong with this  the TWICE unit stops the starter from turning, it also sends a bus message to Trionic which stops the fuel injectors from firing if the car is immobilized so bypassing the starter will still not allow the car to start. Of course mucking about with TWICE like this will also most likely cause other problems too. Tech-II won't let you do very much in any case, until the car is no longer immobilized and the security is off it will tell you to get lost. Of course time is money too and the cheapest way if you have access to Tech-II is to get a TWICE module with transponders and marry that to the car as this would only take about 30 minutes, I've looked on ebay.com and there are TWICE units with keys available from $175 to $250 which to my mind isn't a huge amount of money and most likely a lot less costly than trying to be clever and bypass the system.

[Greenr28]

Thanks again.  I was browsing through All Data and came across something interesting concerning opening the door with the key when the alarm is armed.  I quote "The alarm cannot be armed/disarmed with the key.  If a door is opened with the key when the alarm is armed, it will be set off.  This does not apply to cars for the US/CA/LA market which are programmed for the key function".  Since this car is a US car, was purchased in Seattle, Washington, USA, it just might work if it's programmed to do so.  I'm going to have her buy a key from the dealer and will see what happens.  Thanks, RG