Auto tranny fluid change

[Petemate]

Gonna do a full service on the 9-3 soon. I was considering also changing the auto transmission fluid during the service (a bit overdue now) but on researching the procedure it looks to be a nightmare. Also looks like the fluid is a bit costly. I will check with my supplying dealer to see what they want.......lol

[Petemate]

Called Saab dealer. The chap I spoke to seemed to think that the auto fluid change is done at the same time as one of the services, he thought 72k. I thought I read somewhere 60k - perhaps that was in the Haynes. So I have just checked the Saab warranty and service book and he is right - 72k. Interestingly, I was quoted £111 inc VAT and the fluid. He did say that is just for a basic 3 litres to not include the torque converter. So I may have a go as it looks like the fluid can be obtained for between £11 and £13 per litre.

[Norfolk Jim]

Pete - if the fluid is the same as in 9-5 being JWS3309 or Saab 3309 then you don't have to pay Saab Vauxhall price.

Sane gearbox as on my Volvo V70 and that used JWS3309. I managed to get hold of Carlube  ATF U which is JWS3309, Toyota TypeIV etc for £51 for 2 x 4.55 litres i.e £5.60 a litre instead of £11. It was upto and above spec and worked wonderful bringing a high mileage gearbox back to like new.

I'm considering doing it on my 9-5 (dame Edna diesel) but there's no visible dipstick to check levels and to fill box.

If you have one then you're home and dry as all you do it get car up to temp and then off ground, remove sump plug which will drain about 3 litres. Put new washer on and fill through dipstick the same amount you got out (measure all carefully) then disconnect oil cooler hose and connect clear pice of tube to hose which you place into measure jug. Start engine and watch liquid through pipe till you see start of bubbles. Stop engine. Pour same amount of new fluid in as you got out. Start engine and pull through gears back to park (Make sure drive wheels off ground and hand brake on obviously.........................) Stop once bubble appear. DO this about 3 times and you'll see liquid going cherry red as all old changes. Lower car, top up fluid and check dipstick. Run car through gears a few times and check level again to be exact. Go for a ride shifting through gears and then check levels.

Hey presto you've got about 95% new fluid in.

This is what we did on Volvo (same box) and would like to do on 9-5 once we find out how the hell you check levels!!

Hope this helps

[Audax]

Pete - if the fluid is the same as in 9-5 being JWS3309 or Saab 3309 then you don't have to pay Saab Vauxhall price.

Just to point out only the 5 speed 9-3 boxes are 3309 fluid, the 6 speeds are AW-1 fluid, to anyone reading this please check that I was right for all models in the 9-3 range and it could be something different again for later cars.

[Norfolk Jim]

Fair comment Audax. Just showing what mine had in it.................still hunting a dipstick but did find some sort of green plastic plug in gearbox located (looking from front of car) down quite low in line with right hand end of cylinder head prob about 4" down from top of box. No idea what it is..........................

I have been told there is a software update for my box but won't know if it's ever been updated unless it's hooked up to TechII and requested as not normally part of any software update. Any ideas Audax?

[Audax]

Fair comment Audax. Just showing what mine had in it.................still hunting a dipstick but did find some sort of green plastic plug in gearbox located (looking from front of car) down quite low in line with right hand end of cylinder head prob about 4" down from top of box. No idea what it is..........................

Just wanted to point out that there are (at least!) 2 types of oil used in these boxes for the 9-3, anyhow the low down green plug you describe is where the dipstick is on the 9-3, you need something like an 8mm or 9mm socket to undo the bolt and it's a real pain to read. I'd investigate that a bit more.

I have been told there is a software update for my box but won't know if it's ever been updated unless it's hooked up to TechII and requested as not normally part of any software update. Any ideas Audax?

I've taken a look and can't see any software updates for the 1.9 auto 9-5 diesels that was available but I no longer have access to all of the data, The saab service club did a software update service a while ago for a small fee (£10?) that would update all possible modules, no idea if that is still running but might be your best bet. If you want to talk specifics it would be better to create a new post in the 9-5 forum.

[phoenix]

Pete - if the fluid is the same as in 9-5 being JWS3309 or Saab 3309 then you don't have to pay Saab Vauxhall price.

Sane gearbox as on my Volvo V70 and that used JWS3309. I managed to get hold of Carlube  ATF U which is JWS3309, Toyota TypeIV etc for £51 for 2 x 4.55 litres i.e £5.60 a litre instead of £11. It was upto and above spec and worked wonderful bringing a high mileage gearbox back to like new.

Just one note of caution- the Carlube is synthetic, whereas the original spec isn't, so there may be some issues if you do not do a very thorough flush.

However it's not all bad on the OEM stuff. I just bought it for less than £8 per litre from Hughes (formerly Haymill Saab)

[Norfolk Jim]

Hi Phoenix

The Carlube is identical spec to JWS3309 and Mobil 3309 which is what Saab use on my box. The Carlube meets all the same specs as the Mobil/Saab ATF which are synthetic according to the bottle.

http://www.carlube.co.uk/transmission-fluids/carlube-atf-u-automatic-transmission-fluid

Used Volvo 3309 in my V70 and then this Carlube and no problems.

[Audax]

The Carlube meets all the same specs as the Mobil/Saab ATF which are synthetic according to the bottle.

WIS says 3309 is mineral based and states "The friction coefficient of synthetic oil is not the same as that of mineral oil based fluid and must therefore not be used. Synthetic oil may cause malfunctions by means of abnormal wear."

Screen shot from WIS:

[Norfolk Jim]

Yeh - just seen that.

Apologies Phoenix 

It's odd that Volvo don't say that though as gearbox is the same AW55-50S something or other so perhaps that's also why Volvo had so many problems with people putting in synthetic and not mineral 3309?

[Audax]

It's odd that Volvo don't say that though as gearbox is the same AW55-50S something or other so perhaps that's also why Volvo had so many problems with people putting in synthetic and not mineral 3309?

I thought that when Volvo (and Renault) used this box they never specified an interval to change fluid and said it was "sealed for life" so nobody ever changed it, however Saab listed it as an item on the 72k service and subsequently didn't have so many problems?

[Norfolk Jim]

They did originally and then found they were having problems and so decided to suggest if car was used for towing or as a taxi then they suggest changes about every 60k. Interesting that those that did it anyway have had no problems but those who didn't often end up scrapping car as cheapest option

[phoenix]

I agree that in theory it is equivalent spec. Indeed I bought 2 x 5l a while back because I was tempted by the price. Here's my story....

My trans was starting to slip. I'd previously done a fluid change and when I looked at it again on the dipstick, it didn't look right- it was sort of cloudy. I had also been losing coolant without any obvious signs of a leak.

I decided on a fluid change and went for the Carlube on price. 2 x 5l flushed through. The old fluid when it cam out was opaque, like it had emulsified and formed an odd pattern in the catch can, so I was fairly convinced it was a problem with premature wear. Having done the change, the box instantly felt a lot better but was still slipping a little.

I spoke to a transmission specialist about a refurb and he said that if there had been coolant leak this would have damaged the friction linings. I did drop a sample off of the fluid for him to test for glycol (on the basis that if there was a coolant-fluid leak it needed sorting before doing work on the box) but he never came back to me. I did have a conversation about synthetic vs mineral 3309 and he inferred that it would probably be OK as long as there wasn't too much mixing of the two.

After a week or so the after the change, the rate of deterioration increased and then it started vibrating under load, so it was pretty clear the transmission was shot. Latterly it also started clunking, so I've had it off the road for a few months whilst I've gee'd myself up to do a DIY box replacement (having found a used one). That's my project for Easter!

Anyway, the long and short of it all is that I've got a wrecked automatic transmission. Using synthetic 3309 may have contributed to the hastier demise, I can't say. It looks like the initial problem was caused by a glycol contamination which may have been exacerbated by a problem with a remap that led to very poor quality changes until it was sorted.

Given that you can buy the "proper" stuff relatively cheaply, and the comparative expense of a transmission, I'd stick with the OEM spec.

I'll let you know how the gearbox swap goes... engine crane at the ready!

[Norfolk Jim]

OMG.................mine is only a slight flare from 3-4 but nothing to ward. It has had a fluid change at required interval but I don't obviously know what was done so just wondered about doing one in not to distant future.

Easter project - wow not for me. Battery swap is as far as I go now.

[Audax]

Anyway, the long and short of it all is that I've got a wrecked automatic transmission. Using synthetic 3309 may have contributed to the hastier demise, I can't say. It looks like the initial problem was caused by a glycol contamination which may have been exacerbated by a problem with a remap that led to very poor quality changes until it was sorted.

Given that you can buy the "proper" stuff relatively cheaply, and the comparative expense of a transmission, I'd stick with the OEM spec.

I know of a box that had oil that was approaching the consistency of jelly when transmission fluid was checked due to it shifting poorly and clunking. I recall that the car had done ~90k and the 72k service sheet listed dexron 3 as having been put in rather than 3309. I can't recall if that box was one that was still broken after putting in the correct fluid or if the flush/drain and fill with proper 3309 fixed it, even if it did fix it there's no way of telling how long it lasted.

This is because the owner indicated that his Saab was "rubbish" after having several faults, all of these could be pointed at because of poor maintenance at a "cheap" garage as they'd used cheap oil, the wrong plugs and wrong ATF and the faults he had were a turbo went bang and needed replacement+sump drop, check engine light with fault codes related to DI so he had a cheap chinese DI fitted and then needed correct ngk plugs and genuine DI and the gearbox fault.

I concur with the proper stuff being not so much more expensive than alternatives so I would go with OEM fluid or buying mobil branded. I also recall there being an availability problem for the 3309 at one point so I tried to source some using all the alternative names for it, I ended up on more than one occasion being sent Dexron instead and when enquiring what the parts supplier was playing at getting told "all ATF is the same just stick it in it'll be fine" this is from 3 of the larger parts suppliers to the motor trade too.