2.3 woes

[cmvtec]

Hello all,

New member here, I currently have a 2002 2.3 Arc 185 auto. I've had the car a couple of years, but I did only buy it as a "stop gap" car. I didn't expect it to last/keep it quite so long. I came out of a company car and wanted something fairly big, powerful, automatic, specified and cheap. It was all of the above. Unfortunately, I didn't know a great deal about these cars at the time of purchase, and it has suffered from timing chain death rattle since I bought it, despite this it's still running, but I fear it hasn't much life left in it, and I'm guilty of letting it deteriorate a little bit.

It's currently in the workshop awaiting a new fuel pump. In the last 6-8 months it's had the following: Alternator, DI Cassette, battery, 02 sensor, and a few other bits and bobs. It's also losing oil, methinks it's almost the end of the road. The thing that concerns me most is death rattle. The car has 120k on it, and had 98k when I bought it. The problem I have now is replacing it, I just can't find anything I like so much (including 9-3s).

My question is: Would I be mental to buy another one and make myself the car I want? Without a doubt, if the one I have didn't have such engine wear, I'd be looking at keeping it forever, but unfortunately there's no coming back from sludge by all accounts.

I really like the look of the Vector models, but the interior in my Arc is everything I want. I'm considering basically putting the interior (and the good bits) of my Arc into a fairly cheap Vector and making myself the car I want?

I'd appreciate opinions, in the mean time, here's my current car:

[phoenix]

Welcome 

Of all the models available, I'd say the 9-5 was the best used buy on the basis that it's sophisticated enough to not feel to old, but simple enough to be reliable.

You say timing chain noise, but has this been confirmed? Are you sure it's not a pulley or something else. They are generally fairly tough and will go on for 200k plus. If there was an oil probblem, I'd think other engine internals would have been complaining more by now.

Whilst it's in, get the garage to drop the sump and have a look at the state of it- that will be a good indicator of how bad things are.

[sgould]

Welcome!

A check over by a good Saab specialist would be the best way to go.  Whereabouts are you? Someone might be able to recommend a specialist local to you.

Timing chain rattle is unusual at only 120,000 miles.  A loose pulley or the clutch on the front of the alternator would sound similar.  But a failure of the chain tensioner would make the chain loose.

A 2002 car should have a dump drop and clean.  The breather pipes collapse and break up and the rubber bits block the oil strainer in the sump.  There is a modified kit of pipes that will cure the problem.

A common point of oil leakage is the oil pressure warning switch.  It can fail and leak through the body.  The oil drips onto the undertray and exhaust and doesn't always reach the ground.

[mikemusic]

Get it looked at and fixed asap

Timing chain went on my original 9000 and wrecked the engine.
Around £2000 to put right so I got a newer 9000 for £1700
Still wish I had that original 9000

<later> or was it the Cam chain .....

Get it looked over anyway. Want to keep that lovely motor going

[cmvtec]

Thanks for the responses guys!

It's very loud, garage it's in doesn't have capacity to drop the sump at the moment - and my loaner Clio is due back tomorrow - there is a local specialist (Parkers - Ryhope). I'll try and get it in there.

When the fuel pump gave out, I whipped the engine cover off (in a bus stop, in the snow) and found a hose (the first one you see when you pull the engine cover) totally burst, I've sliced it out and refitted it - but the rest are likely in similar condition.

I'm wondering how much money it's worth pouring into this car? I love it, and nothing drives like one, but another one could be picked up for peanuts and then I have a spares car?

I'm concerned I'll be throwing money after bad.

[sgould]

Find what's wrong first.  It sounds like you have the original breather pipework.  If so, you need to do the sump urgently.  It could be the noise is crankshaft bearings due to the lack of oil.  If this is the case, then it may well be more economic to scrap it.  But find out first.

There is a set of modified breather pipework.  You need the big kit that replaces all the pipes and the catch tank.  One like this http://www.partsforsaabs.com/product_info.php?cPath=105_588&products_id=4650

As long as you don't need a new engine and the car body is not rusty, it should be worth keeping.

[cmvtec]

I strongly suspect the above, I will have it checked asap - but I'll not scrap it before I buy another and strip it for spares. The former SWMBO did once get the use of it for a while, and told me the "gravy boat" light came on a few times when cornering. Oil topped up accordingly.

It has been noted by people standing 30ft away that my car sounds like "two skeletons shagging in a biscuit tin".

It's also worth noting, I paid very little for this car, and I've ran it since August 2014. I've spent some cash on it, of course, servicing, tyres, battery, DI cassette, alternator, CPS sensor, and now fuel pump. Most of these can be transferred straight to another 2.3 9-5, of course. As well as holding myself a useful stock of everything that I can get off of it worth having, and a cream leather interior in really good, clean condition, and some 16" Arc wheels.

[sgould]

The standard light walnut dash in the Arc model panel is quite rare and some people like it.  I did, but it won't fit a 2007 car.

[cmvtec]

I really like it, I bought the Arc model over a Vector on the basis of the full cream leather and walnut dash. I do, however, prefer the Vector exterior.

My plan, I think is to basically gut the car I have and find a reasonably priced Vector model to put those bits on (and fill my spare room with what isn't yet needed!)

Including the walnut dash.

I'd really like to start afresh with Saab, as I absolutely love the car I have, but I fear it's beyond economical repair, in the long run.

[David]

The difficulty is you may end up buying a car with similar or worse problems. Sometimes it is better the devil you know in the situations. If it was me I would keep it and get the problems sorted. Get a trustworthy SAAB tech to take a look. I am fortunate to have one of the best SAAB specialist (JamSAAB) on my doorstep, though I am sure there is a local SAAB garage you can use.
There are few decent 9.5s around and yours happens to be in the best colour IMHO

[Audax]

Keep in mind that all 9-5's of this vintage will be rocking a highish mileage (or will be very very expensive to buy).

I would get it looked at and an idea of price to have it sorted. You could well buy another 9-5 for £1000 and it need £2000 spent on just service items like suspension bushes, breather kits, sump drop, brakes/exhaust/tyres and niggles, For around £1000 you'd get the timing chains sorted on the current car if they are the source of the rattle along with a head gasket which if the rest of the engine is OK would see you have a huge amount of mileage left in it.

[Geoff1951]

I really like it, I bought the Arc model over a Vector on the basis of the full cream leather and walnut dash. I do, however, prefer the Vector exterior.

What's the difference between the Arc and Vector exteriors, apart from wheels?
The used cars brochure says the Vector has body coloured bumpers and sills though it doesn't say the Arc has, but your photos contradict this and I've never seen any different.

[Audax]

In the UK the Vector and Arc are the same externally and the Arc model was positioned to be the higher spec (with wood dash trim) but the Vector would (mostly) come with 17" wheels vs the 16" of the Arc. Of course the Arc model was ditched after just a couple of years and the later 9-5's from that period would very often come with the side skirts and bumpers of the Aero models. In the USA the Arc models had higher spec engines with the 9-3 Arc having the B207R.

Mostly the naming and marketing of the models was quite crazy for a while.

[cmvtec]

Well guys, I picked her up from the garage after the fuel pump.

£188 fitted, not bad.

Within quarter of a mile the turbo guage started going batty, clouds of smoke, no power and engine cut out.

I've abandoned it again.

I'm I right in thinking the turbo has given up? Wasn't like this before it went in, and it hasn't actually moved since the recovery wagon dropped it off. It idles ok, but as soon as I put it into drive the turbo gauge starts behaving eratically, there's smoke and it cuts out after a short distance.


As far as I know, Vectors have the skirts and splitters as well as the larger, nicer wheels.

If this is turbo failure, the car will definitely be parted out as described above.

In the mean time, I'm on the bus.

[sgould]

Turbo gauge is electronic and driven by the Engine Control Unit.  So if it's going mad, the engine management is confused. 

It could be the turbo, or it could be a head gasket.  But it's not something silly like the garage filled it with diesel after fitting the pump?