Help - loud rattly whine from top of engine area

[carrera]

The pumps are remarkably resilient.

I was convinced one was done because I had lost power steering fluid, but I just replaced the pipes, filled up & she was quiet as a mouse again. Probably done 30k since then.....

[sgould]

Yes.  My pump rattled badly when the fluid ran out of the corroded pipe.  I stopped by the side of the road and saw a puddle. I rang my boss (it was a while ago!) and he informed me that I needed to get to his meeting even if I had to abandon the car and get a taxi.  No offer to fetch me, it was only a mile...  That was when he lost the support of his staff.

Anyway. I bought two bottles of fluid and it more or less got me the 12 miles home to the garage.  It would need a lot of fluid to get you back from France.  Whereabouts are you? I have found one or two good small mechanics in rural France.  Quite versatile.  I think there are few customers in the "Empty third", so not much money.

[TomPaine]

Brittany. I'll get more intel in the morning: I have told my neighbour, who's doing the calling, that the pump generally only has an issue when there's a leak, but I can't imagine that having sourced the noise to the pump a competent garage wouldn't be checking the level and for leaks, and this place is highly regarded with proper mechanics. It would be frustrating to say the least if they replace the pump and that doesn't sort it cos there's a leak ...

Meanwhile I found this French Saab parts site:

https://www.rbmperformance.com/saab-spare-parts-specialist

and their aftermarket pump:

https://www.rbmperformance.com/power-steering-pump-for-saab-9-5-_l_EN_r_169_i_1775.html

I've topped up oil, and coolant, but never PAS fluid, so I ought to school myself on how to check the level, whether it makes a difference whether it's hot or cold, etc.

[carrera]

The reservoir is on the osf inner wing

There's a mini dipstick on the inside of the screw cap

So long as it's wet and not up to the top it'll be fine, but you will see a min / max ridge 

[TomPaine]

Garage says replacement pump is incoming - I don't know where from. D'you think I can assume that they know [1] to have checked for leaks and [2] to flush the system and replace the fluid? I don't want to irritate them by being patronising. It's a highly regarded place and they have worked on Saabs.

Btw, what PAS fluid does the system require - something exotic and unobtainable I assume?

[sgould]

Fluid is green Pentosin.  Either Pentosin 11S or Pentosin 202.  Do not use Dexronw or Denton 3 orange stuff.  Not sure about Dexron 4, which I think is used in the NG9-5.

Pentosin 202 replaced 11S, but it mixes, 202 has a higher temperature range.

[carrera]

I have been working today, even though a bank holiday, apologies for the delay in replying

Limk from earlier in the thread on the fluid that is needed

Definitely not the NG 9-5 stuff - that's red Dextron 6, also known as ATF fluid

Job's probably done by now ?

I have bought from Autodoc, in my case delivery time was not quick, so that's probably the most relevant for you

I would expect that your local garage could get one next day at worst from their usual suppliers, they would in the UK

Do make sure it isn't just low on CHV fluid

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-87380-fuchs-titan-chf-11s-hydraulic-fluid-formerly-pentosin-chf-11s.aspx


If you have a minor leak, you'll probably be able to get home if you have a couple of litres to top up on the journey

[TomPaine]

Hi and thanks Will and carrera. Literally just been called by the breakdown company - the garage has a replacement pump, they want to replace the drive belt, and are flushing and replacing the fluid. There's no mention of any leak but I can only assume they looked for one. Aiming to do it by end of tomorrow so will need to stay an extra day.

[carrera]

Fingers crossed for you, a one day extension to your holiday isn't the end of the world

[TomPaine]

Well, I'm home. Picked up the car Wed PM, drove all day Thursday and the car behaved perfectly, very fully loaded for the c600 miles back. Via Google-translate conversations I know their 'regular supplier' supplied an aftermarket pump which they insisted was good (more expensively than the various options discussed above); the PAS fluid used was Champion central hydraulic fluid -

https://gb.championlubes.com/en-us/products/passenger-cars/brake-and-steering-fluids/champion-central-hydraulic-fluid/5078-02

Not, plainly, Pentosin, but he was at pains to show me via his monitor that it was spec'd for Saab 95s and the spec sheet on that website says as such. It's green, and the old stuff was red. He quoted for a fresh drive belt but said in the event it wasn't necessary. He was emphatic that there was no leak.

Car was A1 all the way home, so I was feeling good. You can sense the 'but' which is coming. But ... I've started it this morning and the noise is back. Whine and rattle, same area, not as bad but unmistakeably the same. Sigh. I'll try to get it to Saabtech for a diagnosis.

[sgould]

Have you checked the fluid level in the power steering reservoir?  Cap off with a quarter turn and see if there's some fluid on the "dipstick" attached to the cap.  If dry, get some green CHF, top up and drive to Welwyn.

If no visible leak, the only place the fluid can hide is inside the steering rack bellows.

My rack failed four years ago.  It was messy...

[TomPaine]

Have you checked the fluid level in the power steering reservoir?  Cap off with a quarter turn and see if there's some fluid on the "dipstick" attached to the cap.  If dry, get some green CHF, top up and drive to Welwyn.

That looks like the plan. I checked it today - though cold, and I understand you're meant to check PAS level warm. Anyway, while there was some in the reservoir, it was just short of registering on the dipstick. Which appears to suggest a leak? Infuriating if so, as it probably means the fix abroad should have been to find a fix the leak, and top up or replace the fluid, rather than replacing the pump. They were adamant there was no leak.

I assume that 'some in the reservoir' (maybe bottom 2cm) isn't enough and that I should top it up. In which case, can I use any green CHF for that, e.g. this:

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-and-fluids/gearbox-oil/comma-mvchf-1l-124416.html

or do I need the exact same as is in there (Champion)?

[sgould]

You can use the Halfords stuff. It's what I use.  If it's green, it should be fine.

my thought was that you said that orange fluid came out.  If so, that will be Dexron ATF.  It's used in some power steering systems, but not in the OG9-5 or NG9-3.  I've been told it can damage seals.

[TomPaine]

Thanks Will. Off to Halfords shortly (on the bus ...). Yes, French mech said the old stuff was red and queried that. If that wasn't spec/d for the car I'm baffled. I've checked all the other fluid levels in my time but confess I've left that one well alone.

[TomPaine]

I've filled it to middle of the reservoir / bottom of the dipstick [cold]. It hasn't gone down and I'm not seeing any drips on cardboard left under the engine. But I haven't started the car - would you typically only get a leak when it's run, or anytime?