No charging

[Petemate]

Bit of a long story but please be patient. Left the interior lights on last night like an idiot. This morning had to get in the car via the emergency key then got it going with a jump start. After it started, the systems were all going mad and in less than a minute up came the 'no charging' symbol & message on the SID, with a nice bright red battery in the rev counter. Put the multimeter on and only showing 11 volts. So I turned it off, and popped the good old Halfords charger on for a couple of hours. Started it up, after the battery had attained 12.7 following the charge, and only basic battery voltage showing, gradually dropping until bong! up came the warnings again. So I nipped into my local factor and parted with £174 for a discounted new alternator. After the very entertaining exercise of replacement, the car is exactly the same. Revved the nuts off it - not charging. Called the local dealer, he had never heard of anything other than the two connectors on the back of the unit (which are on correctly and tight) - apparently, there is no fusible link anywhere which I could have blown jumping it (before anyone asks - yes, I did connect the batteries the right way....lol) and no relays or fuses anywhere which have any control over the charging. So I will have the old unit tested tomorrow morning if I can find anywhere, and if it is OK then I'm stuck. Natch, if it is duff, then I'll have to whip the new one back off and have that tested. It is not a genuine Saab one, it is an APRA, but came with an impressive couple of test certificates. Really baffling, as normally I get on quite well with electrics. I would imagine that as the ignition warning light in the rev counter is working, that rules out a problem with the sensing circuit.
Anyone else had anything like this?
Pete AKA Confused.com

Since writing this an hour or so ago, I can report that when I start the car now, the battery light in the rev counter does go straight off, but once it has been running a while and the systems (inj etc) have been in operation, the battery voltage then drops down and back on comes the battery light and on comes the message and large battery icon in the SID. I think the hidden message in there is "you are a plonker"

[Audax]

I'd suggest one of 2 things. First off after market alternators for the 9-3 are pretty much without exception all total crud. I would guesstimate that the initial failure rate on an after market unit being somewhere around 50% before being fitted and somewhere around 95% of units will fail after 6 months. In all honesty given the price of a new genuine Saab unit you'd have to be mad to fit a non-genuine one

One example of this was when I had to replace an alternator on a 9-3 where the customer had just had one fitted and it didn't work. When I compared the weight of the after market unit with that of a new genuine one I'd say that the after market unit was significantly lighter as in about half the weight and you could visibly see how much less copper there was in it. Anyhow, I'd be more likely to suggest that your battery has died and is causing the car to throw up a false warning about the alternator.

[Petemate]

I'd suggest one of 2 things. First off after market alternators for the 9-3 are pretty much without exception all total crud. I would guesstimate that the initial failure rate on an after market unit being somewhere around 50% before being fitted and somewhere around 95% of units will fail after 6 months. In all honesty given the price of a new genuine Saab unit you'd have to be mad to fit a non-genuine one

One example of this was when I had to replace an alternator on a 9-3 where the customer had just had one fitted and it didn't work. When I compared the weight of the after market unit with that of a new genuine one I'd say that the after market unit was significantly lighter as in about half the weight and you could visibly see how much less copper there was in it. Anyhow, I'd be more likely to suggest that your battery has died and is causing the car to throw up a false warning about the alternator.

THanks for the quick response. The battery is a GM one, fitted new when I bought the car April last year. It has normally started and perfomed without any problems; I am going to connect up my caravan battery in a while (110 amp) which is fully charged as I periodically top it up and it holds a charge very well, This should eliminate the car's battery in case there is an internal problem with it preventing the alternator from charging. The unit I bought from C R Marks has its full test certificates all OK, and it is the same in weight (bruised knuckles to prove) and appearance as the original. There is no brightening whatever of the interior lights as I am sitting revving the car up.

[Audax]

Test certificates and bruised knuckles account for nothing I'm afraid, I'd be very suspicious of an after market alternator on a 9-3 whatever the circumstances as my experience has shown them to be mostly junk.

[Petemate]

LOL! How's this sound - I'm pretty sure the factor will have test facilities. I will whip the new one back off (should be a piece of cake now) and take both units. 1) both faulty - new one please, to be tested before I leave. 2) Original one OK, new one faulty - refund please. 3) Both OK - refund please, you've tested it and it's OK so I haven't toasted it.
For 1) back on the road tomorrow. For 2) & 3) car goes to the dealer Tues for Tech 11 to hopefully find something with the Engine ECU. According to my wiring diagram, the w/l circuit passes through it on its merry way to the dash - could something have blown when I jumped it this morning? Bear in mind that the battery was totally flat; once I got it going from our other car, we took the leads off and that's when the dash lights etc all went mad. Although it was running, the PAS was not working and maybe disconnecting the slave car while the Saab's battery was only at a few volts without the charging did something nasty to the ECU. Clutching at straws now. I'll know a bit more if I can get the units tested tomorrow.
Appreciated the feedback.
Pete

Since my reply, I've googled and seen a lot of info advising against jump starting but if so using approved methods to avoid ECU probs. Possibly then, something in the ECU relating to charging has occurred.

[Saabman]

I'd still be looking at getting the battery tested rather than the alternator, the discharge may have done it some harm

[Petemate]

Thanks Saabman - I couldn't fit the caravan battery in the tray, and even with heavy jump leads it wouldn't start. Interestingly, I had popped the charger on to the caravan battery and within 5 mins it was showing 13.6 volts. I have the charger back on the Saab battery and will see what it is at in the morning. I suppose if there is a foobared cell in there the system may not want to charge it?

[Petemate]

This morning with a clear head, a little less stressed, went back to basics. Last year, shortly after I bought the car, it failed to start at my place of work. The AA man showed me how to reset the ECU basic settings, and with the battery right up to 13.6V after the overnight charge, I did the deed and now have a healthy 14.2V at the battery terminals. I can only think that there must be something in the engine ECU which controls the charging; if not I don't know what it was, but it is now charging fine.
Thanks to all for the inputs and feedback, though I don't think I have really helped others for the future.

[philmots]

Interesting stuff..

It would make it really useful if you explained how to do the basic ECU reset.

[Petemate]

Interesting stuff..

It would make it really useful if you explained how to do the basic ECU reset.

As demonstrated by AA. Turn ignition switch to ON. Turn off and remove key. Disconnect negative battery terminal. Wait 10 mionutes. Reconnect terminal. Start car. Any management warnings displaying need to be checked by dealer, codes to be read, and so on. This occasion in April 2010, the week after we bought the car, was necessitated when I tried to start the car to move it in my work car park. Upon turning the key to the 'crank' position, nothing happened, not even a click, and absolutely no faltering whatever in the brilliance of the dash lights. I then turned the ign off, removed the key, and checked for the obvious (namely biscuit crumbs etc in the key socket!) Out came AA man and sorted it. He explained that this action (allegedly) will do a sort of 'reset' of the ECU. After this debacle, another week into ownership, on a journey the whole of the instrumant cluster went mad, all symbols lit, all gauge needles down to zero, odometer reading unaffected, car running normal. On an old car, I would have put my money on the main dash earth failure. After a couple of miles, all back to normal. Next day went to the dealer, and they upgraded the software, took it on a test, nothing to report. Two days later same again. Put the car back in and asked that it be sorted proper, as we were imminently taking the caravan on a holiday in a week. They eventually replaced the instrument panel, having stated that they didn't know what was wrong with it but took an instrument panel from another car. They advised that the mileage was the same as this is apparently controlled by the key fob? MMmmm...... No problems after that with the panel.
So that is all I can say really - may have been BS from AA, but 1) it got the car going in April 2010 and 2) it is now charging like a good 'un with the only thing I had to reset being the clock. Yesterday a run down to Borden to see the new year in with OH's sis & hubby, and back today, all good. I am convinced that the dash lights are brighter and the car definitely turns over on starting brisker. I am sorely tempted to fit a voltmeter. A lot of my previous cars have had one and I do like to keep track of the charge rate; on a car with plenty of electrics I would like to know all is well. Anyone see anything wrong with hooking one up to the cigar lighter connections, and slotting it nicely in the cubby? Ignition fed, and a light circuit too, job would be a good 'un.
Pete

[phoenix]

I can only think that there must be something in the engine ECU which controls the charging

Yes, the signal to the exciter field of the alternator is controlled by the engine ECU. On petrol models, there is also a feed from the alternator that indicates the amount of load, which is used by the ECU for idle control.

"Simpler" alternators use entirely internal voltage regulation.

[Petemate]

I can only think that there must be something in the engine ECU which controls the charging

Yes, the signal to the exciter field of the alternator is controlled by the engine ECU. On petrol models, there is also a feed from the alternator that indicates the amount of load, which is used by the ECU for idle control.

"Simpler" alternators use entirely internal voltage regulation.

Thanks for that - all makes sense now.
Pete
PS I did rig up the old alterator on the bench with a warning light and battery, and spinning the unit over with my drill I couldn't get the light of, so my money was on the alternator but still was uneasy until I got it charging again!

[philmots]

I read over on UKSaabs something about an ECU reset that involved the removal of a fuse under the bonet. I'm not sure this is to just reset engine adaptions as it was done over there as a way of improved performance.

Interesting stuff, though. ~Will remember that.

[Petemate]

I read over on UKSaabs something about an ECU reset that involved the removal of a fuse under the bonet. I'm not sure this is to just reset engine adaptions as it was done over there as a way of improved performance.

Interesting stuff, though. ~Will remember that.

Well, I did remove & refit every fuse under the bonnet during my checks, to see that they were all intact. Possibly this was what sorted it - I'll never know for sure. I also read about that, after getting it going again. I am going to get a voltmeter; there are some natty little digital ones available that just plug into the cigar lighter, also a neat rectangular gauge which would fit next to the lighter in the cubby hole. A voltmeter would have alerted me to the dropping charge voltage. Wisdom after the event....
Ta again all

ETA:
Got a nice little digi voltmeter, will be fitting it tomorrow, pics will be added. It is large enough to see, display in green to match the instruments, yet small enough to fit next to the power socket with enough room at the side for small objects.

[Petemate]

Sorry for poor quality pic...
Had it in next to the power socket at first but was out of line of sight so moved it. Had to 'dull down' the display as was too bright. Used a print from images 'shades of grey' - took it apart, tried and the third shade was just right. Cut out same size as the plastic lens, popped it back together - done. It looks brighter in the pic than it is, and it is good and not intrusive.