F?@*%$£ car fails yet again!

[Max Headroom]

 

Went to start my car this morning and did the usual thing; heated the plugs and initiiated the start as soon as the plug-heater light went off. Engine turned over easily and the car almost started but didn't quite catch.

On the second attempt I got no heater lights, and instead of any engine turning over got a strange sound -  which is a bit like a chattering solenoid or something from under the bonnet. Or like a noisy fuel pump.
I also got the impression I could smell hot electrics almost instantly.
Several re-attempts made no difference.

Battery was replaced in Spring so should be ok. Admittedly the car has sat for over a week without going anywhere but has done this before, and always started with no struggle or fuss.

I just got in now 23:50 (having had to resort to making the journey in SWMBO's car), and thought I might give it another try.

This time, the exact same noise, even before I get to turn the switch fully! (I also notice there is no pre-heat lights) However the SID now displays 'Traction Control Failure, Contact Service'

This car has wanted for nothing and been well serviced since I have had it yet it continues to be letting me down, and I am starting to become very disillusioned with it.

If anyone has any thoughts on this latest blithering fiasco I'd be more than interested in hearing them. Thanks in advance.

[aerojon]

sounds to me like a dead battery,the chattering as you call it(sounds more like rapid clicking) is the solenoid on the starter trying to engage,but because there isn't enough power in the battery it can't..

[nine-fiver]

Battery.
Put on the headlamps and look at them while someone tried to start the car. If they dim, then you have a dead cell in the battery.
Happened to me recently, on a newish battery.
You get what you pay for in car batteries it seems.
Tried jumping it from a donor car?

[Max Headroom]

Wow - two of you saying battery! I'm really surprised! It readily turned over at the first try. I did try putting the lights on to see if they dimmed but SWMBO could see no appreciable change (but she is technically very inept) as I was in a rush to head up to Salop I left it with the intention of sorting ot out today.

Not had a chance to try jumping it yet but will certainly give that a go later.

...the burning smell? Traction control failure caption?

Thanks for suggestions

[jmblack]

Battery.

Had similar experience with what seemed a normal turnover that didn't catch then the distinctive chattering. The error codes could just be as a result of false signals.

Get one from eurocarparts if there's one near. Cheaper than other retail places and 15% off just now.

[Max Headroom]

OK Update.

Have just given car a decent 20 mins of charge before even attempting to turn the key.

I have exactly the same symptoms:
No heat caption; No roatation on starter motor; and the strange noise.

I can't describe the noise as a clicking (as in a solenoid clicking) - it sounds more like an old MGB fuel pump running very quickly. (Maybe thats the problem! Who fitted that?? )


EDIT:

The noise happens at the ignition 'ON' position, and NOT at the 'ST' position (as I would have expected. The noise also stops by itself after approx two seconds other than that, it seems dead

EDIT (2

Just started looking at fuses, and found fuse #4 (under bonnet)  to be blown. I have changed that, and have the heater light back, but other than that, the same symptoms.

[Petemate]

Mark - be very careful if you try a jump start. Even though I followed all the rules with mine over a year ago, I still managed to junk the alternator. No crossed jump leads, blah blah. After the event I read up carefully on jumping cars, and even after all my years with cars, my eyes were opened. Seems the best thing to do is to run from a donor car for enough time to charge up the poorly battery sufficiently before trying to start the car. Saves frying ECUs etc. (AND alternator diodes lol)
Very interesting that you have the chatter sound even before turning the key to the Start position. My money, along with our fellow contributors, is still on the battery. The chattering is possibly the various services, eg steering lock, trying to operate. However, as you have tried a charge, there may be a problem with the battery sufficiently serious so as not to accept a charge. Perhaps worth a good check of the terminals, ie disconnect, thorough clean, and refit. Shame we are about to make our duty Boxing Day trip to our daughter, or I would be scooting up to you to see what could be done.
Good luck
Pete

[Audax]

I'd suggest the most likely problems are either the wiring loom went on fire a bit or suffered from corrosion in one of the leads (common and requires a very methodical process to work out with a copy of WIS) or the ecu died (also common) both of these faults will cause the traction control failure message and no pre-heat light coming up.

I'd try and find the source of the noise first and report back, have a good look around with mk,1 eyeball for possible problems. Also, what voltage does the battery read over the terminals? If it's 12V then it's unlikely to be a failed cell in the battery as it'd read somewhere around 10V, even with a cell down the engine ECU will still power up (if the headlights work, does the remote locking, does the radio work too? if they do it's unlikely to be battery) but if you're getting no pre-heat light and a traction failure warning (one of the reasons this message can be generated is when the traction ecu can't talk to the engine ecu) I'd say wiring/relay fault or ecu failure both of which have been the majority of 9-3 failures to start in my experience and also for some unknown reason more common in the winter months!

[Max Headroom]

Many thanks Audax

Just been speaking on phone with Petemate, and have blown x2 of those fuse #4. I dont have a manual but he said he thought fuse #4 points at ECU or associated wiring /plugs etc.

AA just arrived as I type 

I'll let them play with it and see if they find anything. Failing that its a case of having to get it to a good electrical specialist or Oxford SAAB - my nearest SAAB based service dept 

[Audax]

I just had a look at WIS fuse 4 heads towards various things they are:

power steering unit
mass air flow sensor
diesel fuel filter
B plug of engine ecu
traction control module

Quite what they do for each component I can't tell you without lots more reading so at this point, I'd be looking at someone who has a copy of WIS and knows how to use a multimeter or a good auto electrician who can follow all the wiring back and check which thing is faulty causing the fuses to blow or it could be going down to earth due to a chaffed wire somewhere. I could do it if the car was with me but realistically it's not going to be possible to give instructions on over the Internet. 

[Max Headroom]

Thanks Audax.

Nothing new since I spoke with you, but for the benefit of anyone else reading this thread....

AA man changed (and blew) several more fuses during his checks. Traction Control caption remained on. He also swapped a relay to try and prove or disprove that. but it made no difference.
Battery was totally fine.

He detected the 'burning smell' in the cockpit and reckoned it was coming from the ignition switch area. Pulling up the trim around the gear-lever showed nothing obvious.

He tested the wiring as far as he could, but could not measure the current blowing the fuse, without exposing the ECU to a potential overload.

Although his diagnostics were not conclusive, he did suggest that it pointed at the ignition switch itself, or wiring in that area, but that a further investigation was required.

The car has been dropped off at Oxford SAAB whom I will call ASAP tomorrow morning

[Audax]

It could be the wiring from the ignition switch chaffing under there or power feeding back into the switch unit itself... hopefully the fuse was blowing before it melted that too 

[CitTone]

Pure speculation, but - bad main earth connection/cable somewhere? Similar symptoms to bad battery, plus electrical burning smell (had this experience with an MGB GT once)

[Audax]

A bad earth wouldn't cause it to blow fuse 4, this side of things is switched directly off from the battery (pretty much).

[Max Headroom]

I called SAAB this morning and got to talk with the techie doing the job, giving him the complete sequence of events first thing this morning for which he was grateful with and also agreed with, including the diagnosis route AA man took as well as many of the comments made here.

They have just called back and believe there is a fault with the ignition switch itself however, they can't prove this until they can get one.... So I wont see the car back until at least after the 7th Jan